Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author	What happened to double ropes?
Olbert 28-Jun-2018 7:29:12 PM	I've climbed on doubles with partners occasionally, mostly for mixed or trad multipitches. I've never actually owned a pair myself (see here) until yesterday when I bought a pair of brand new, never uncoiled Mammut Twilight doubles for $200 off a newby. :D
Stugang 28-Jun-2018 9:33:57 PM	A related but different observation is that I recently started using an unused 10.5 mm mammut rope I acquired a while back. I only started using it cos I had it and thought I’d rather trash it at the gym than my nice 9.something single rope. But ffs it is so totally heavy and fat. Even clipping feels weird and at top of a gym wall it feels like an anchor. It also doesn’t hold a bowline nicely without slipping so I now am now using a fig 8. Can’t believe my first rope was even fatter at 11mm. Back on topic...I always have liked having the option of doubles available and reckon these days you could match a skinny single and a super skinny twin/double at the same or less weight than my old school fat boy 11mm. In an ideal world that’s what I’d own but now need to trash my mammut 10.5to justify the expense.
mikllaw 29-Jun-2018 6:29:28 AM	I like the doubles even around sharp bolted stuff in the mountains, the theory is that clipping alternate pieces reduces the risk of cutting both. But when it comes to the crunch I clip them together as twin ropes because they look so thin. On a recent route I led a 48m pitch with 9.8 mm 'twins'
TimP 29-Jun-2018 8:29:48 AM	On 28-Jun-2018 Stugang wrote: >A related but different observation is that I recently started using an >unused 10.5 mm mammut rope I acquired a while back. I only started using >it cos I had it and thought I’d rather trash it at the gym than my nice >9.something single rope. > >But ffs it is so totally heavy and fat. Even clipping feels weird and >at top of a gym wall it feels like an anchor. It also doesn’t hold a bowline >nicely without slipping so I now am now using a fig 8. Can’t believe my >first rope was even fatter at 11mm. > >Back on topic...I always have liked having the option of doubles available >and reckon these days you could match a skinny single and a super skinny >twin/double at the same or less weight than my old school fat boy 11mm. >In an ideal world that’s what I’d own but now need to trash my mammut 10.5to >justify the expense. I remember the heavy old 11mm — extra fat when fuzzed up, but wasn't there a change in the way rope diameters are measured? I think they are now measured loaded with a certain weight which has changed the whole diameter thing.
Martym 2-Jul-2018 7:08:41 PM	I've been climbing since 2001 - so I'm hardly old skool. On my first trip to araps in 2006, we brought doubles and I thought they were the best thing ever, and got a set of mammut genesis that I love. One of them got a bit manky so i bought a Mammut Serenity which is rated as a single, but is about 8.7; so I've still got the option to double rope when required. What do most people do when they abseil into the Grose? Backpack carry their second rope? I would think that it's not that you don't see them as often; it's just there are so many more climbers out there. I wonder how many people at the Mount own all their gear vs sharing it? You don't need doubles on the organ pipes.
Jayford4321 10-Jul-2018 7:40:05 PM	On 2-Jul-2018 Martym wrote: >I've been climbing since 2001 - so I'm hardly old skool. >On my first trip to araps in 2006, we brought doubles and I thought they >were the best thing ever, and got a set of mammut genesis that I love. >One of them got a bit manky so i bought a Mammut Serenity which is rated >as a single, but is about 8.7; so I've still got the option to double rope >when required. > >What do most people do when they abseil into the Grose? Backpack carry >their second rope? > Wrong site for your question?. This is a climbing site not that there might not be absquealers on it. >I would think that it's not that you don't see them as often; it's just >there are so many more climbers out there. I wonder how many people at >the Mount own all their gear vs sharing it? You don't need doubles on the >organ pipes. It’s prolly not so much that there are more peeps, but that they are in different areas, the choss lovers doing the double thing out of sight in the backblocks. Re organ pipe doubles, where else newbs going to learn? Anyway, the ring clippers are too lazy to carry a rack so why would they carry another rope?
Martym 11-Jul-2018 6:48:31 AM	On 10-Jul-2018 Jayford4321 wrote: >>What do most people do when they abseil into the Grose? Backpack carry >>their second rope? >> >Wrong site for your question?. This is a climbing site not that there >might not be absquealers on it. And you're obviously Victorian. Pierces Pass is pretty much exclusively accessed via two 45m abseils.
gfdonc 11-Jul-2018 6:54:29 PM	On 11-Jul-2018 Martym wrote: >And you're obviously Victorian. >Pierces Pass is pretty much exclusively accessed via two 45m abseils. Uh-huh. And you're obviously not paying attention. I don't know anyone that climbs on a 90m rope, so you'd need a second rope for each 45m abseil.
Macciza 12-Jul-2018 12:57:15 AM	Touche'...
Martym 12-Jul-2018 1:28:24 AM	On 11-Jul-2018 gfdonc wrote: >On 11-Jul-2018 Martym wrote: >>And you're obviously Victorian. >>Pierces Pass is pretty much exclusively accessed via two 45m abseils. > >Uh-huh. And you're obviously not paying attention. I don't know anyone >that climbs on a 90m rope, so you'd need a second rope for each 45m abseil. If you scroll up to my original post that Jaybro was commenting on - I think it's pretty clear what I was asking. If people aren't using double ropes any more; how are they getting down long abseils & what do they do with any extra rope (assuming it's not a double). It was a real question - Mikl climbs there regularly, and set half the routes there - so I assume he knows?
Jayford4321 12-Jul-2018 3:12:47 AM	On 12-Jul-2018 Martym wrote: >If people aren't using double ropes any more; how are they getting >down long abseils & what do they do with any extra rope (assuming it's >not a double). It was a real question - Mikl climbs there regularly, and >set half the routes there - so I assume he knows? Given the example pic you posted the answer is obvious. Those who don’t use double ropes (at least to abseil on if intending to climb out), don’t go there. A committing place like there, or Point Perp prolly has peeps temporarily leaving abseil rope/s in place as backup in case of needing to jug out. Even absquealers with specialy long ropes might like another rope for a belay?
Stugang 12-Jul-2018 5:31:28 AM	Agree martym it obvious you ask banana when you say fish. PS. If you need to ask what magic is needed to get to a cliff requiring two ropes to access with a single rope you probably shouldn’t be climbing at a cliff requiring two ropes for access.
martym 12-Jul-2018 6:49:29 AM	I know I'm getting trolled, but in the spirit of the honest discussion Mikl has started I'm going to lay it out clear: I'm specifically referring to long abseil in areas, for example Pierces Pass in the Blue Mts. Option A - use doubles to ab in & climb out. Option B - Climb in two parties of 2; ab down on two combined single ropes, climb out. Option C - Ab down with your climbing rope and another rope/static line and... put it in your backpack? This is what I'm wondering - as I have seen several groups climbing on singles on said Pierces Pass multipitches, haven't thought to ask "how did you get down?" There is a long walking path I believe, but it seems more likely they abseiled. Are they all in groups of 4 or more? Maybe. And that's it for me. I know when I'm not welcome.
Olbert 12-Jul-2018 1:51:55 PM	I've done it plenty of times with a climbing single and a rapping single (usually just an old half retired rope). Then either the leader trails up a second rope off their haul loop or the second does the same. Actually using them to climb as doubles is useless on the "sport" multipitches - you get none of the benefits and all of the drawbacks - hence why people just climb on a single.
gfdonc 12-Jul-2018 4:37:24 PM	OK to address your question: I've been down Pierce's 3 times (despite being Victorian). Don't recall what combo of ropes we used last time (on Bunny BB) but it was probably a 9.7 or 9.4 single and an 8.1 half rope. Then climbed out as doubles. When I did Hotel Cali a few years back we took two single ropes and climbed them as doubles. Too bloody heavy! I've never seen anyone rap in on a rope and then carry it out.
E. Wells 12-Jul-2018 10:23:25 PM	If I was going to climb at Pierces I would take a 60m 9.4 single and 60m of 4mm prussic. Rap off a binerbloc with a grigri and stuff chord in bottom half of bag.
Andrew_M 12-Jul-2018 11:29:04 PM	Doubles are the biz. Apart from dealing with rope drag, the security of having that second rope if one gets cut, and having double-length raps... - More options for retreat or self rescue - If you're a wuss (like me) and don't like being above gear then you can clip one while being nice 'n safe on the second rope - You can have 3 in a party on a multipitch so that the belayer has someone talk sh!t with For Pierces - either doubles, or "triple rated" (single/double/twin) paired with a double/twin works well. Clip as doubles or twins depending on circumstances.
Olbert 13-Jul-2018 1:02:27 AM	I just spent a week climbing at Frog with doubles because I no longer have a 70. All in all, I would have much rathered a 70 and not have had to deal with all the extra rope management.
IdratherbeclimbingM9 13-Jul-2018 1:18:57 AM	On 29-Jun-2018 TimP wrote: >I remember the heavy old 11mm — extra fat when fuzzed up, but wasn't there >a change in the way rope diameters are measured? I think they are now measured >loaded with a certain weight which has changed the whole diameter thing. You are right about the weight standardised rope diameter measuring process, but it’s been around for a long time now; from back in the 70’s at least as far as I recall without refreshing my memory.
IdratherbeclimbingM9 13-Jul-2018 1:28:35 AM	On 12-Jul-2018 martym wrote: >I know I'm getting trolled, but in the spirit of the honest discussion >Mikl has started I'm going to lay it out clear: >I'm specifically referring to long abseil in areas, for example Pierces >Pass in the Blue Mts. >Option A - use doubles to ab in & climb out. >Option B - Climb in two parties of 2; ab down on two combined single ropes, >climb out. >Option C - Ab down with your climbing rope and another rope/static line >and... put it in your backpack? >This is what I'm wondering - as I have seen several groups climbing on >singles on said Pierces Pass multipitches, haven't thought to ask "how >did you get down?" >There is a long walking path I believe, but it seems more likely they >abseiled. Are they all in groups of 4 or more? Maybe. > >And that's it for me. ? Didn’t outlining options A, B & C answer your own question? If I was climbing there with a partner or in a party of three, I’d use doubles. If I was doing roped solo I’d do like EW suggests and use a thin prussic cord with a regular main for access, to lighten the load.

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