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Accident at Arapiles: November 9th


ajfclark

13-Nov-2010
11:03:23 AM

That's a nice change. I keep seeing people riding with the helmet on but unbuckled.

Decoy

13-Nov-2010
11:48:33 AM

Speaking of the image portrayed to kids...

Billy Kool doesn't need a helmet and he climbs to the max extreme!!!


Superstu

13-Nov-2010
12:02:55 PM

I suppose it comes down to what you value more; a functioning brain, or looking cool in front of your mates.

Olbert

13-Nov-2010
1:28:15 PM

On 13/11/2010 superstu wrote:
>I suppose it comes down to what you value more; a functioning brain, or
>looking cool in front of your mates.
>
Did you know that it's safer to wear a helmet while driving? Do you wear a helmet while driving?

Wendy

13-Nov-2010
1:32:48 PM

On 13/11/2010 olbert wrote:
>Do you really think every person that climbs
>at Centenial Glen/Nowra/Shipley Upper/(insert random sport crag here) is
>an idiot? No they have assessed the situation and decided that a helmet
>is not necessary.

I don't think many of them have actually assessed the situation and made an informed decision. I think it's mostly an idea that sport crags are somehow safer than trad ones and more like climbing in the gym and hasn't really been thought through. An assessment of any lead climbing would see that the chances of taking a whipper and hitting your head are pretty similar whether you are in the gym, at Shipley or at Araps. The chances of rock fall vary a bit between crags but the chances of someone dropping a quickdraw on your head are probably greater at Shipley or the Glen than almost anywhere else in Oz. I'm not a helmet fanatic,but I certainly would not claim that all the people who are not wearing them are making an informed and reasonable decision. How the hell did we end up with another helmet debate anyway?


ajfclark

13-Nov-2010
1:43:25 PM

Keiran said he didn't want to start one and here we are. You could be cynical an say that he knew by saying we shouldn't have one he knew he'd start one...


rodw

13-Nov-2010
2:06:59 PM

>Did you know that it's safer to wear a helmet while driving? Do you wear
>a helmet while driving?

No but I wear a seat belt and have air bags instead.

If you dont want to wear a helmet thats fine..your choice....but there are not many (if any) valid reasons not to wear one...and plenty of reasons to wear one....but one of the joys of rock climbing is you make your own choices regarding your own safety and hope it stays that way.

Olbert

13-Nov-2010
3:18:19 PM

On 13/11/2010 rodw wrote:
>>Did you know that it's safer to wear a helmet while driving? Do you wear
>>a helmet while driving?
>
>No but I wear a seat belt and have air bags instead.
>
>If you dont want to wear a helmet thats fine..your choice....but there
>are not many (if any) valid reasons not to wear one...and plenty of reasons
>to wear one....but one of the joys of rock climbing is you make your own
>choices regarding your own safety and hope it stays that way.
I can make exactly the same arguments regarding climbing: I dont wear a helmet but I have a dynamic rope and a good belayer instead.

Also: if you dont wear a helmet while driving that's fine, its your choice, but there are not many (if any) valid reasons not to wear one and plenty of reasons to wear one.

I do actually wear a helmet quite a bit (not on every occasion). Its a risk management thing - the chances of shit going wrong weighed up against the annoyance of wearing a helmet.

Depending on the crag/route/type of climbing the chances of shit going wrong is low, but the consequences high. The chances of the helmet being annoying is high but the consequences is low.

There is no one right answer and the statement "there are no valid reasons not to wear one" is an argument that could be applied to anything if you dismiss the comfort factor - ie wearing a helmet while driving.


ajfclark

13-Nov-2010
3:46:52 PM

On 13/11/2010 Olbert wrote:
>Also: if you dont wear a helmet while driving that's fine, its your choice, but there are not many (if any) valid reasons not to wear one

I don't think I'd fit in my car with a helmet on. When I used to spike my hair it would rub on the roof.

daave

13-Nov-2010
4:13:43 PM

On 13/11/2010 Olbert wrote:
>
>Depending on the crag/route/type of climbing the chances of shit going
>wrong is low, but the consequences high. The chances of the helmet being
>annoying is high but the consequences is low.

What do you mean, the consequences are low when wearing a helmet? Have you ever thought what everyone else thinks of you when you're at the crag? You reach up for the first clip, quivering, asking your belayer to "watch" as the sun shines off of your shiny white brain bucket. Unbeknown to you, your selfishness of wanting to look after your own safety by wearing the lid, meant that your parter is too ashamed to be seen with you and is belaying from around the corner. Think about THOSE consequences Olbert. It's not always about you.

I, however, am a very selfless man. I am willing (yes, thank me later) to forgo the helmet purely to increase the street/crag-cred of my belayer.

Doctors can fix a broken skull, but can do little to repair dignity...It'd do you well to remember this good sir.


rodw

13-Nov-2010
4:31:29 PM

I guess I just dont find helmets annoying...... TBH i dont even know its there while Im climbing.

patto

13-Nov-2010
4:39:15 PM

Personally I am in favour of abolishing Australia's ridiculous bicycle helmet laws. We are one of the few countries in the world with bicycle helmet laws. Its a personal choice, the same with wearing a helmet while climbing.


tmarsh

13-Nov-2010
5:36:00 PM

On 13/11/2010 patto wrote:
>Personally I am in favour of abolishing Australia's ridiculous bicycle
>helmet laws. We are one of the few countries in the world with bicycle
>helmet laws. Its a personal choice, the same with wearing a helmet while
>climbing.

Mandatory bicycle helmet laws saved my life when I was 18. Personally, I think there are far more important issue of personal freedoms being encroached on than this. And as long as I continue to receive fantastic emergency medical care for free when I do injure myself, I think I can handle sticking to a few rules that help keep me safe.

kieranl

13-Nov-2010
5:42:43 PM

On 13/11/2010 patto wrote:
>Personally I am in favour of abolishing Australia's ridiculous bicycle
>helmet laws. We are one of the few countries in the world with bicycle
>helmet laws. Its a personal choice, the same with wearing a helmet while
>climbing.
That's cycling politics and not relevant here.
And, while I may be cynical, I'm not quite as cynical as ajfclark is speculating. It's just hard to work out how to comment on the helmet issue without stirring things up.


dave h.

13-Nov-2010
6:31:02 PM

On 13/11/2010 patto wrote:
>Personally I am in favour of abolishing Australia's ridiculous bicycle
>helmet laws. We are one of the few countries in the world with bicycle
>helmet laws. Its a personal choice, the same with wearing a helmet while
>climbing.

As an article I read for uni said recently:

"The independent individualist, helmetless and free on the open road, becomes the most dependent of individuals in the spinal injury ward."

widewetandslippery

13-Nov-2010
6:41:44 PM

On 13/11/2010 rodw wrote:
>I guess I just dont find helmets annoying...... TBH i dont even know its
>there while Im climbing.

I notice it, but then again you put up with looking at my head to, which of course has nothing in the slightest wrong with it.


ajfclark

13-Nov-2010
6:56:16 PM

On 13/11/2010 kieranl wrote:
>And, while I may be cynical, I'm not quite as cynical as ajfclark is speculating.

Maybe I'm projecting my own?

[Edit: I just reread what I wrote and I'm not sure how you understood that as saying you were cynical. It was more trying to imply that you were shit stirring...]

>It's just hard to work out how to comment on the helmet issue without stirring things up.

No, it's not hard. It's darn near impossible. Like saying "Let's have a sensible discussion about" followed by:

bolts
camming angles
impact forces on various bits of gear
cordelettes vs using the rope
etc
etc

simey

13-Nov-2010
7:11:21 PM

On 13/11/2010 superstu wrote:
>I was bemused recently when a good climbing friend of mine started mixing
>with the Natimuk crowd, and suddenly she was not wearing a helmet when
>leading, despite many years of dutious helmet wearing. Had the risk of
>her taking a nasty fall and smacking her head actually changed?

I reckon a lot of the Natimuk crowd do wear helmets but we are not obsessive about it.

kieranl

13-Nov-2010
8:21:21 PM

On 13/11/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>[Edit: I just reread what I wrote and I'm not sure how you understood
>that as saying you were cynical. It was more trying to imply that you
>were shit stirring...]
No big issue. Just a loose interpretation on my part.


mattjr

13-Nov-2010
8:28:49 PM

Time for a new thread title?

It is your choice if you wear a helmet or not. But perhaps in this case opinion doesn't neccesarily need to be voiced. Perhaps we should just let all of those that do choose to wear a helmet wear one, giving no grounds for peer pressure.

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