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BOLT WARNING - Pierces Pass, Blue Mountains

hipster

4-Feb-2009
6:33:42 AM

They are well aware

Marssan

4-Feb-2009
9:20:29 AM

A big Thankyou to Simon, Mike and Andy for doing an important but shitty job.


phil_nev

4-Feb-2009
9:40:06 AM

I just cant believe that they wrote up the description, sent it in to the guidebook editor and made no mention of the bolts. Careless scumbags chasing fame, should be f---ing ashamed of themselves.

On another note... Simon, i noticed that the tope for the route on the croatian website shows the hardest pitch at 6B+, this dosnt seem to match with what you found on your first inspection. I seem to remeber you saying that the section where Nick fell looked virtually unclimbable?


anthonyk

4-Feb-2009
9:52:47 AM

out of interested how do you think those bolts compare with some of the bash in carrots around the place and other less than 100% bolting styles, would they still be significantly stronger than that?


tnd

4-Feb-2009
10:39:18 AM

A bad carrot is crap and a bad expansion bolt is crap. Even good carrots and good expansion bolts are not so good in Blue Mtns sandstone when cyclically loaded e.g. lots of dogging and falling on a crux bolt, because they tend to loosen. That's why glue-ins are the best solution.

But a badly fitted glue-in (poorly prepared bolt, uncleaned hole, dud epoxy etc) is crap too.

Never trust a single bolt!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Feb-2009
12:12:47 PM

p_n wrote;
>I just cant believe that they wrote up the description, sent it in to the guidebook editor and made no mention of the bolts.

Hmm. Perhaps due to not being locals they assumed that most bolts in the bluies are installed to the same standard? ie rubbish rock = a rubbish end result no matter the bolt/technique? ..., and therefore thought it to be 'just another route' and not worth mentioning this idiosyncrasy?
(Don't get me wrong, as I am not defending poor bolting practice, ..or those who put the route up for that matter; but can see how this situation could arise).

Now that the bolts have been pulled, will the route be rebolted to appropriate standard?
~> seems a shame not to imo, ... esp since one of our own has embraced it in the closest possible (final), way; ... maybe rename it in its new form as NK Memorial Route(?), as (imo) the history of it needs to be remembered as a salutary reminder/wake up call for future similar endeavours, and as an ode to Nick.

Onsight

4-Feb-2009
12:54:34 PM

On 4/02/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Now that the bolts have been pulled, will the route be rebolted to appropriate
>standard?

No. Sorry. Absolutely not. That route is one of the most worthless piles of rubbish I have ever seen in my life. I imagine (or hope) that it could have only ever been a visiting climber, who cared nothing for the quality of they did, would ever seriously consider putting a "route" up there.

Good questions Phil. We think this section is WAY harder than 6b+. But I'll answer in more detail when I get more time.


nmonteith

4-Feb-2009
1:05:01 PM

It sounded like they had their eyes on the 'line' well before they had even been to the Blue Mountains. Did they just look at a guidebook, spot an empty section and decide that was going to be their new climb?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Feb-2009
1:08:26 PM

On 4/02/2009 Onsight wrote:
>No. Sorry. Absolutely not. That route is one of the most worthless piles
>of rubbish I have ever seen in my life. I imagine (or hope) that it could
>have only ever been a visiting climber, who cared nothing for the quality
>of they did, would ever seriously consider putting a "route" up there.

I will take your word for it.
Not having done any routes at that location, I was giving it the benefit of the doubt, though its proximity to an established line, did cause me to wonder how contrived it was.

As an aside, there are some folk who don't mind climbing 'worthless piles of rubbish', but they generally don't expect to be tricked* into thinking they are safer than they actually are(n't), while doing it.

Thanks for posting your news-blog onsight.

(*8mm bolts in 8.5 -> 9mm holes. Inconceivable, ...shakes head in wonder).


nmonteith

4-Feb-2009
1:14:59 PM

It's not contrived M9, it's just on the horrible mossy soft vegetated ledgy rubbish rock that occurs on most southern faces in the Blue Mountains.

I just found this very good overall report online on a USA website. It's a great summing it all up article...
http://climbing.about.com/b/2009/02/03/bolt-pulls-australian-climber-dies.htm

Winston Smith

4-Feb-2009
1:30:32 PM

On 4/02/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>It's not contrived M9, it's just on the horrible mossy soft vegetated ledgy
>rubbish rock that occurs on most southern faces in the Blue Mountains.
>
>I just found this very good overall report online on a USA website. It's
>a great summing it all up article...
>http://climbing.about.com/b/2009/02/03/bolt-pulls-australian-climber-dies.htm

Except for this caption and the accompanying picture: "Photograph above: The Three Sisters in the Blue Mountains near the accident scene are one of Australia’s most famous natural landmarks."

I s'pose at least they didn't take a picture off someone's flickr site or the like.


Richard

5-Feb-2009
1:38:24 PM

>>I just found this very good overall report online on a USA website. It's
>>a great summing it all up article...
>>http://climbing.about.com/b/2009/02/03/bolt-pulls-australian-climber-dies.htm

"was established in December, 2007 by a couple Croatian climbers who were attempting to establish a new route on every continent that calendar year."

poor motivation for setting up a route ... should be done because a route is worth climbing, not your own ego satisfaction...

Given how badly this route was bolted.. has any one tried to identify what the other routes they established are and if they're ok..?

sincere condolances to nick's family and friends...

onsight

7-Feb-2009
4:39:05 PM

A guy on the Supertopo forum
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=772824&tn=20

has emailed the bolt manufacturer, who in turn has updated his product description:

http://www.raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodotti_dettaglio.asp?prod=hang_fix_inox_m8l&qi=0-2-23


Macciza

8-Feb-2009
5:49:27 PM

On 1/02/2009 Onsight wrote:
>
>Macciza, get your facts straight and learn some manners. Your opinionated
>dribble is insulting in the circumstances to say the least.
>
Well the Police penalties would be higher than NPWS fines - Fact!
Maybe if you had presented some facts at the outset your action would not have needed questioning .
. .
Sorry I guess I'm not as sycophantic as a lot of the others, loved your show in front of Chris . .
At least in this response you did not threaten legal action like in the email you sent me , ,


Macciza

8-Feb-2009
5:52:13 PM

On 2/02/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>We just got a very positive email from Blue Mountains ranger Neil Stone...
>
Thanks for posting that - At least now other climbers will know ithe action was allowed . . .
Unlike earlier reports that seemed to suggest personal motivation alone . . .


Macciza

8-Feb-2009
6:05:43 PM

Thanks to Mike for performing the tests he did (that I basically suggested and got canned for)
Finally we are seeing some facts . . . Luv you work . . .


skink

8-Feb-2009
6:40:11 PM

Thanks Mac for your constructive contribution to all of this, I for one am mightily impressed by your ability to keep your personal issues out of this tragic affair.

Onsight

8-Feb-2009
9:02:05 PM

On 8/02/2009 Macciza wrote:
>Unlike earlier reports that seemed to suggest personal motivation alone
>. . .

So here we are weeks later and you still persist with this shit. My motivation was to prevent another accident. I have found you and perhaps one other person to be at times quite unhelpful in this.

devlin66

8-Feb-2009
9:21:17 PM

I'm am surprised he is worried about the bolts at all. He constantly tells us that he skips most of them anyway.


nmonteith

8-Feb-2009
10:24:31 PM

I made up this comparison diagram so the average climber can see the size differences between the 'ideal' Blue Mountains bolt - and two of the less preferred. You can see that the actual diameter differences is not dramatic - and for depth embedded the Croatian route's expansion bolt is deeper into the rock than the U-bolt! It's also interesting to see that the carrots we have been clipping for all these years on popular routes are the smallest of the lot. Discuss!

There are 196 messages in this topic.