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25-26/12/2019 Candlestick accident

kieranl

9-Sep-2020
2:30:33 PM

One Day Hero : +1

gfdonc

9-Sep-2020
2:48:52 PM

I have to agree, +2.
When we went, we had 4 capable experienced leaders with (I estimate) at least 80 years of experience between us, and were still paranoid enough to double-check every step.
Not a place to learn the basics.

Olbert

9-Sep-2020
5:02:26 PM

On 9-Sep-2020 One Day Hero wrote:

>1) 6mm rap line
>
>This is a specialized twin rope/cord designed for alpinism. If there is
>any info from Edelrid suggesting that rapping on a single strand is within
>scope please add the link, because that does not appear to be a recommended
>use of the product. I am absolutely flabbergasted that numerous people
>on this thread have expressed a blase acceptance of rapping on a single
>strand of 6mm. In hot and/or wet conditions, rapping on two strands of
>8mm rope can get pretty hairy. I wouldn't dream of deliberately rapping
>on a single strand of 8mm, and the idea of rapping on a single 6mm strand
>makes my hair stand on end.
>
>As to the benefit, I can maybe understand why Colin Haley would risk using
>this thing on 36hr 5000 vertical meter slogfests in Patagonia. The Candlestick
>is 1.5hrs pretty flat walk from the car, and they had seven people to carry
>stuff. The correct rope for the Candlestick fixed rap/Tyrolean is a 10.5mm
>static with a couple of tubular rope protectors. A slightly thinner static
>or a chunky dynamic would also be acceptable. There is no excuse for using
>this joke cord, it was grossly unsafe and I am truly shocked at how many
>people are glossing over it.

A good example of group think I reckon. Without thinking too much or looking into it, I assumed the 6mm tag line was somehow designed for it, not withstanding the lack of rope protectors.

dan_b

10-Sep-2020
8:07:59 AM

On 9-Sep-2020 Olbert wrote:
>On 9-Sep-2020 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>1) 6mm rap line
>
>A good example of group think I reckon. Without thinking too much or looking
>into it, I assumed the 6mm tag line was somehow designed for it, not withstanding
>the lack of rope protectors.

I glossed over this too. I've never rapped on cord this thin. Also, thanks ODH, I always enjoy your analyses (and style of feedback, even when others don't!).


sbm

10-Sep-2020
8:27:28 AM

Resurrecting my account because I just have to post this...How about a Tyrolean on a 3mm tech cord that you flew over by drone!? It's Sketchy Andy of course, still alive and at it somehow.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E9SdfdRD0WQ

Ryan Jenks later pulled that cord to failure at the knot at like 4kn, and measured the force on the Tyrolean at 2-3kn. Aaaaaaah.

dan_b

10-Sep-2020
10:55:58 AM

Cheers SBM.

I just went out to the gear shed and measured some of my accessory cord. What I was picturing in my mind as 6 was actually 8mm. I found some 6mm that I’d previously used in cordellettes. Scary, and having seen it again it’s really quite jarring to consider rapping on it. I tied up both and “rapped” each as a single. I was able to control the 8 fine with an atc style device but the 6mm was very difficult, and immediately apparent to me how ANYONE would get into trouble using this.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

10-Sep-2020
12:50:47 PM

On 30-Aug-2020 davedave wrote;
> Both group leaders agreed to use a Elderid 6mm (specialist) rap line (as single strand 6mm) for this purpose.

>The climbing team decided to split the rappel down the mainland side into two pitches (reasons unknown). One or more climbers descended the line uneventfully, but a following (inexperienced) climber on the club team (apparently using a megajul; configuration tube/brake assist unknown) lost control during their descent. Despite a firemans belay the climbers fall was slowed but not completely arrested. The climber suffered a burn/abrasion injury to their hand.

Re the Edelrid 6 mm used as single strand for abseiling...
The Edelrid website has an associated downloadable pdf for usage of this specialist rope.
It is quite clear in the pictographs of that file that the rope is meant to be used double, or if mixed with a larger diameter rope to either abseil on both together or block off the thin 6 mm strand and abseil the thicker diameter strand, and even then, with caution and due attention to rigging correctly in both cases!

Re using a megajule abseil device with it as a doubled strand abseil; it clearly indicates that two karabiners are meant to be used in conjunction with the megajule to provide manageable friction.

ODH’s treatise should be compulsory reading for all members of the club involved...

patto

11-Sep-2020
4:05:24 PM

On 10-Sep-2020 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>
>ODH’s treatise should be compulsory reading for all members of the club
>involved...

Surely a well informed and well written formal incident report is far better than the rantings of an ill informed guy on the internet.

Like I've said I agree with many of the issues raised. But going on long winded rants over factors that are already known and raised as issues is not productive. Personally I do want to see more accident reports posted and discussed, and we can do without the old man yelling at a cloud.


E. Wells

11-Sep-2020
5:12:04 PM

On 11-Sep-2020 patto wrote:
>On 10-Sep-2020 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>ODH’s treatise should be compulsory reading for all members of the club
>>involved...
>
>Surely a well informed and well written formal incident report is far
>better than the rantings of an ill informed guy on the internet.
>
>Like I've said I agree with many of the issues raised. But going on long
>winded rants over factors that are already known and raised as issues is
>not productive. Personally I do want to see more accident reports posted
>and discussed, and we can do without the old man yelling at a cloud.

I for one read odh's communication keenly. To say the audience is a cloud is confusing.

capt_planit

13-Sep-2020
8:15:13 AM

ODH's analysis seems pretty good and well measured. Your name calling "ill informed" indeed! Seems petty and not relevant. Simey and Wendy should chime in.


Miguel75

13-Sep-2020
7:18:49 PM

On 13-Sep-2020 One Day Hero wrote:

...SNIP...
>
>I don't see it like that because I'm a people person. The problem isn't
>lack of information, it's just that some people are clusterfuched perma-bumblies
>who were born useless and will die useless in horrible avoidable accidents
>because softies like you don't have the heart to tell them climbing isn't
>for fuching everyone!

Haha, Unfortunately your comment doesn’t just apply to climbing. Some people are perma-bumblies in regards to life... It’s amazing the level of stupidity we’ve (society) attained thanks to the negation of natural selection due to legislation and safety features

dalai

13-Sep-2020
8:23:57 PM

You are a lot of things ODH, but with your bedside manner the one thing you aren't is a people person!


gordoste

14-Sep-2020
8:05:55 AM

On 13-Sep-2020 dalai wrote:
>You are a lot of things ODH, but with your bedside manner the one thing
>you aren't is a people person!

LMAO

There are 33 messages in this topic.