Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop

Black Diamond: "Neutrino" karabiner - 2016 model. (Gate opening 22mm) Gate opening = 22mm. - Assorted "Ano" colours... (Red shown) Email colour preference . (ALL colours except BLUE in stock!)  $9.00
25% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 64
Author
St Peters Gym accident
Dj Biggs
20/09/2016
3:17:51 PM
Hoping a speedy recovery to the climber who had a ground fall from near full height of the St Peter's Gym on 14/09/2016.

I thought I would share my thought's and make a couple of points to help others whether new or old to the sport.

The accident happened after the climber fell clipping the last draw. The climbers fall wasn't arrested by the belayer using an ATC. It was correctly set up, in my opinion a couple of factors probably exacerbated the poor belay technique and inability to arrest the fall.

The two factors that reduced friction were the use of a new rope and the draws of the gym having no offset to add additional friction that belayers may be more accustomed to from climbing outdoors with off set quick draws.

I think, these two factors reduce the friction in the system substantially, (an ATC is a friction braking device) and the forces generated may catch belayers off guard and in this case unable to arrest a fall. Also with the rise of skinnier ropes, be careful when using them in situations such as gyms, personally I have had my belayer knee someone on route to the first draw due to a surprising lack of friction using a skinnier rope (9.4m).

(Also from a brief google it appears the aluminium friction coefficient is around twice that of steel which is the difference between most climbers quick draws and the biners used in gyms. Maybe Mikl would know details?)

To sum up I think it was operator error, though I hope something can be learned from it all the same and that is catching falls in a gym can be harder than outdoors as the forces generated may be greater due to less friction.



rightarmbad
20/09/2016
3:58:19 PM
Fist of all, condolences and hope recovery is quick and total.

Second,doesn't matter which rope or biners, if you hold the brake side rope it will arrest any normal fall.
Especially one from the top of a route where the forces are the lowest due to plenty of rope out and low fall factor.

The problem here is bad habits belaying often learn't from using assisted devices.
I see it all the time when I visit gyms, no contact whatsoever with the brake side rope as the rope is thrown into the device for clipping high.

Now I don't always have a hold of the rope, but my hand is always around it as it slides.
But I continually see total release of the rope and then recapture which is fine until there is a fall at the exact time that you have let go of the rope.
Once the rope starts to run there is really very little that can be done and about all you can hope to achieve is burnt hands.

These three videos should be compulsory watching for all climbers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOIAYx-d4HE

Miguel75
20/09/2016
4:00:08 PM
I hope climber and belayer come out of this with minimal lasting issues. I may be speaking out of turn though when I'm belaying the only thing I rely on to make sure the leader won't deck, is paying attention.
Will_P
20/09/2016
4:17:15 PM
Surely not the 'only' thing? Paying attention is essential, but I reckon holding the rope will at least double your chances of keeping your partner off the deck, M75!
glebechris
20/09/2016
4:50:01 PM
So, it is interesting to be the topic of a chockstone forum. I was climbing with my friend Patrick belaying me.

I will post some thoughts later on the cause of the accident and consideration of techniques we should teach and reinforce.

In the short term, I am enduring some horrendously uncomfortable days and nights. I will walk but might have other impairments. I will update you as I go. Sophie King (I think that his her name) who works at the gym was wonderful taking care of me immediately on hitting the deck. The health treatment has been amazing. I don't think the gym particularly could or should have done anything different and they have followed up to check on me.

I worry for all the people traumatised by association with my accident.

I'll post more when I am physically able to do so.

Chris
mikllaw
20/09/2016
6:31:44 PM
I'll be interested to hear more information.

The friction of rope through Steel and Aluminium biners feel very similar (even though they wear differently), I couldn't find any measured data but will check some databases tomorrow that I can't access from home.

Many routes outdoors also have all the draws in a straight line.

Miguel75
20/09/2016
6:41:08 PM
Chris, I hope you heal up quickly and completely. Injuries are never a good thing and I'm glad your stack wasn't worse. I also hope your belayer is ok and being looked after too...

Miguel75
20/09/2016
6:41:39 PM
On 20/09/2016 Will_P wrote:
>Surely not the 'only' thing? Paying attention is essential, but I reckon
>holding the rope will at least double your chances of keeping your partner
>off the deck, M75!

Touche:)

Zarb
20/09/2016
8:38:48 PM
Another weird question and I'm not suggesting that it was the case or even if they were wearing them in this instance, but would using belay glasses increase the chances of being inattentive at the belay? Not so much inattentive, but slow to react?
I was reading a few reviews of the belay glasses and a few of the reviewers said that when they used them outside and the climber dislodged a rock or dropped some gear, the belayers using the prisms reported feeling detached from the situation and sluggish in reaction time to dodge said missile. Kind of like watching TV and not feeling like you're part of it so you're reactions are off.

phillipivan
20/09/2016
9:07:02 PM
On 20/09/2016 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 20/09/2016 Will_P wrote:
>>Surely not the 'only' thing? Paying attention is essential, but I reckon
>>holding the rope will at least double your chances of keeping your partner
>>off the deck, M75!
>
>Touche:)


And I reckon not falling will at least double the chances of my partners not decking...

rodw
21/09/2016
6:50:52 AM
On 20/09/2016 glebechris wrote:
>I'll post more when I am physically able to do so.
>
>Chris

Keep us in the loop Chris, sending positive thoughts for a speedy recovery.

ajfclark
21/09/2016
7:45:03 AM
On 20/09/2016 Zarb wrote:
>I was reading a few reviews of the belay glasses and a few of the reviewers said that when they used them outside and the climber dislodged a rock or dropped some gear, the belayers using the prisms reported feeling detached from the situation and sluggish in reaction time to dodge said missile. Kind of like watching TV and not feeling like you're part of it so you're reactions are off.

I wouldn't call it detached, but there's some mental gymnastics involved in realising that something apparently heading straight for your head horizontally will hit the top of your shoulder if you don't side step.
technogeekery
21/09/2016
8:59:08 AM
Chris - doesn't sound great - hope you start mending soon and that you can recover completely.

I climb at St Peters twice a week, and am pushing myself to stop being a weenie and fall more often in this "safe" environment. But it does seem that every few months someone takes a ride to the ground...

Anyway, do post up and let us know what happened, lessons to be learned etc, when you can. Understood Patrick your belayer is probably feeling awful at the moment and there will be sensitivities - but you can understand that our interest is only around prevention and learning, not allocating blame.

Get well soon.
One Day Hero
21/09/2016
1:52:53 PM
On 20/09/2016 glebechris wrote:
>So, it is interesting to be the topic of a chockstone forum.

Fuch dude, I would be mortified if I ever had an acco and the Chockstone goober patrol started their guessing-game routine. Sorry that you have to put up with this shit.

Best wishes for a quick recovery.
Sandym
21/09/2016
4:01:23 PM
I use belay glasses on single pitch routes and I think they make you more attentive because it is easy to see the climber without cricking your neck into an uncomfortable angle. They're pricey, but if you do a lot of belaying, I figure you save money in physio expenses trying to fix your bung neck.
widewetandslippery
21/09/2016
4:24:34 PM
Damo, there has so far been a happy reluctance of goober patrol. Mostly well wishers. Thank phuc we arent sepos. The penis who suggests outdoor climbing though, is a contributerter can eat my poo. i have the runs, i, m going to bendalong, point and thomos this weekend as long as i have stopped pooing myself.

rodw
21/09/2016
5:22:47 PM
So your out this Sunday then..take you runny arse away I say
widewetandslippery
21/09/2016
5:28:18 PM
Good chance i will Rod, poo willing, its still a carving blast so i will see how the bum shot goes.

Garbie
23/09/2016
4:59:39 PM
Hi Chris
On behalf of everyone at the gym I am relieved to read your message and wish you all the best for a good recovery. Your injuries sound severe but it's good news that you will walk out of there. Yes Sophie King is her name. She is a nursing student and one of our many great staff members who do their best in these circumstances.
Yes I would welcome talking at some stage about this with you. An accident as serious as this has only happened a handful of times in the 23 years we've been in business (not "every few months" as the post above claims) but when it does we always have a review of the gym's policies and procedures. Without talking specifics, belayer error among experienced climbers is very hard to predict or prevent. The staff talk to anyone they see belaying badly, and hopefully that has prevented more accidents, but it can't prevent them all.
Once again on behalf of everyone here, our sympathies are with you, and all the best.
Mike Garben
Director
patto
24/09/2016
2:15:34 AM
On 20/09/2016 mikllaw wrote:
>I'll be interested to hear more information.

I think we all would. But as I understand it some significant injuries have been sustained and talking on chockstone about the incident may not be high on the priority list of those involved.
(Some of the other banter, not you mikl, is borderline insensitive.)


....As it happens I still owe the chockstone community a incident report that I did commit to a while back. It is a debt that will be paid in due time...

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 64
There are 64 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Landscape Photos Australia

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | High Country Mountain Huts | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints