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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

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Bike riding and flexibility

ChuckNorris
15-Jul-2016
6:08:05 PM
Gents when I was a keen as lad popular wisdom (?) had it that cycling too much was no good for leg flexibility. Not sure whether this was restricted to hammies, gluts or hips but in general cycling had a tinge of negativity for climbing.

I never took much notice of it but it was always something on my mind. Anyway talking with a non climber cycling mate recently he reckons it's all BS and if there was any truth it'd be restricted to hammies and that could be negated by having the seat higher than normal.

Now that I am an old fart (though not as old as Eduardo or simey) and care less, I'm curious to know what the popular wisdom on the the matter is as opposed to the late eighties early 90's campfire elite climbing advice (BS?).
stugang
15-Jul-2016
6:20:34 PM
Which actually reminds me of a story told to me by a pommie climber about some dude in the UK who got his mates to push him around in a wheelchair for months so he could reduce his enormous thighs.

May not be true but I believe it is my inalienable right to choose to believe otherwise.

Eduardo Slabofvic
16-Jul-2016
8:43:15 AM
Given how inflexible you are, doing anything that gets your flabby sorry ass moving would be of benefit, except for its likely increase in traffic congestion

Duang Daunk
16-Jul-2016
9:21:26 AM
>inflexible
That's what she said.

Ed my good bro, have you finished your latest atrophy sesh in simey's wheelchair yet? I hear he is looking for it again.

If it isn't working for you after all this time maybe you should take a holiday to warmer climbs. I hear NT has a market for slow moving, walking handbag distractors.
dalai
16-Jul-2016
9:22:18 AM
On 15/07/2016 Stugang wrote:
>Gents when I was a keen as lad popular wisdom (?) had it that cycling too
>much was no good for leg flexibility. Not sure whether this was restricted
>to hammies, gluts or hips but in general cycling had a tinge of negativity
>for climbing.

You will only loose flexibility if you don't stretch. You may gain some muscle on the legs, but that will depend on what type of riding and volume.

Don't put the seat up higher, will only cause issues.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
17-Jul-2016
8:32:54 AM
On 16/07/2016 dalai wrote:
>Don't put the seat up higher, will only cause issues.

Can you elaborate please?

With my (very) limited experience of mostly riding a mountain bike in hilly country, I've experimented a lot with seat height after working out that one or two centimetres can make a huge difference to my pedalling efficiency.
I have found that without getting out of the saddle, riding on the balls of my feet with maximum seat height is the sweet spot for efficiency for me, particularly going up hill. Once the hill can no longer be tackled in this manner then getting out of the saddle works best.

Being a climber I have been thinking that full leg extension pedalling is not dissimilar to stepping up on holds (at least from double pedal height), and might be good for slabs or aid climbing at least!
devlin66
17-Jul-2016
12:19:37 PM
You don't want full leg extension. with the pedal at 3 o'clock you want the bottom of the knee cap to be over or just in front of the pedal spindle. With the pedal at 6 o'clock you then want about 145 deg bend in the leg with your foot in it's normal pedaling position. This is an approximate but close to the average. This is awkward to work out your self. For an approximate seat height take your inseam and multiply it by 0.885. That will be the distance from the center of the crank axle to the top of the seat along the seat tube center line.

Too high a saddle in injurious to hamstrings as it stretches them out repeatedly straining them plus it puts a lot more pressure on the perineum and causes the hips to rock making for an unstable core and a lot of movement in the contact area. Too low a saddle is even worse as the knee has to push out of a very inefficient angle that causes a lot of strain on the knee.

As far as being bad for climbing that is bunk. So long as you are not adding a huge amount of bulk the extra fitness and the strength it gives for high steps, dynos, heel hooking etc. is highly beneficial. Like any activity stretching after exercise is paramount. Also not smashing yourself to smithereens every time you go out helps progression.

Eduardo Slabofvic
17-Jul-2016
12:38:09 PM
On 17/07/2016 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 16/07/2016 dalai wrote:
>>Don't put the seat up higher, will only cause issues.
>
>Can you elaborate please?
>
>

You're on the right track in so far as there a few different pedalling techniques to use depending on the circumstances. E.g. Sprinting is different to tempo which is different to climbing. You tube is your go to place for technique tutorials. Look out for a guy named Joe Friel.

Also, SBS on demand is showing the UCI Mountain Bike series. Good opportunity to see how the pros ride. Observe their body weight distribution and their pedalling as they go up hill.

What I try to do when riding on dirt up a hill is to avoid any wheel spin, as that tends to make me loose my momentum and shift my body position. I use "clipless" cleats so that allows my to try and keep a constant pressure on the pedals. More important on hard but loose surfaces.

The issues that Dali referred to are many and various, but usually involve pain in some or other part of your anatomy.

On dirt, I like to drop the seat as low as possible when descending, so I need to be able to put it back in the right spot when riding flat or up hill. So I've just put a scratch on the seat post. There are these seat posts that you can buy that are like hydronic, so you press a button on your handlebars and you can push the seat down with your backside then press the button and it comes back up into the same spot. They seem like a good idea.
Dave_S
17-Jul-2016
10:46:33 PM
On 17/07/2016 devlin66 wrote:
>You don't want full leg extension. with the pedal at 3 o'clock you want
>the bottom of the knee cap to be over or just in front of the pedal spindle.

The Knee-Over-Pedal-Spindle method of bike fitting has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

Miguel75
18-Jul-2016
12:17:11 AM
On 17/07/2016 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>... SNIP... So I've just put a scratch on the seat post. There are these
>seat posts that you can buy that are like hydronic, so you press a button
>on your handlebars and you can push the seat down with your backside then
>press the button and it comes back up into the same spot. They seem like
>a good idea.

They are great! I've recently added a dropper seat post to my new Mtb and absolutely love it... 125mm of adjustability makes riding a lot more fun and gets the seat where you need it quickly.
devlin66
18-Jul-2016
8:38:58 PM
Yes it has been but for a very basic starting point it's an ok method. Most of the fits numbers I am seeing for the frames I design are well forward of the pedal spindle compared to past traditions. It all completely depends on morphology and if you want to have a proper fit done to maximise power output and minimise injury then go an see a proper bike fit professional.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
19-Jul-2016
1:08:35 PM
Good thread Stuey. Your query rang vague memory bells for me too, though I was not into treadlying back then so it wasn't an issue to me at the time; unlike now, as its only a week or so till I update my 22+ year old mountain bike to a new technology one... & yes it has a dropper seatpost.
;-)

Thanks for the detailed feedback to the thread gents, and the PM devlin66.

Dave_S I found that link very interesting reading as I like to understand the pros/cons as well as the dynamics of things.

ES, you said;
>Look out for a guy named Joe Friel.

I assume in a good way not a bad way?

Re flexibility; an old climbing mate of mine who drifted out of climbing due old injuries getting the better of him, has recently taken up yoga. Though skeptical (was only attending to appease his better half at first), he has since become an enthusiastic convert due to the radical benefits in flexibility (without associated pain), he has experienced from it. So much so, that he's seriously considering taking up climbing again...

Eduardo Slabofvic
20-Jul-2016
6:39:39 PM
On 18/07/2016 Miguel75 wrote:
>my new Mtb
>

Do you have a 27 or a 29?

My old 27" hard tail need serious upgrades to the extent that it could be cheaper to get a second hand bike, so wondering if 29s are worth it.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
20-Jul-2016
6:48:11 PM
... For what it's worth though I'm no expert but better informed after the homework I did (I'd like to think I'm reasonably thorough), I went for a 29er as it is likely to meet my needs better.

I'm also now aware that the new direction that Mtn bikes are taking is toward electric assistance for uphill...

ChuckNorris
20-Jul-2016
7:09:23 PM
On 16/07/2016 dalai wrote:
>You will only loose flexibility if you don't stretch.

Let's sayi never stretch - are you saying that cycling would decrease flexibility without stretching more than say running? I ask as the popular wisdom (?) told me at the time that for example running was better cross training than cycling as cycling meant big legs and less flexibility.

For the record I never took notice of the advice cos I liked neither riding nor running however I'm curious to know as the whole performance training thing has become more scientific these dAys.


Thanks for the comments all.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
20-Jul-2016
7:21:01 PM
On 20/07/2016 Stugang wrote:
>On 16/07/2016 dalai wrote:
>>You will only loose flexibility if you don't stretch.
>
>Let's sayi never stretch - are you saying that cycling would decrease
>flexibility without stretching more than say running? I ask as the popular
>wisdom (?) told me at the time that for example running was better cross
>training than cycling as cycling meant big legs and less flexibility.
>
>For the record I never took notice of the advice cos I liked neither riding
>nor running however I'm curious to know as the whole performance training
>thing has become more scientific these dAys.
>
>
>Thanks for the comments all.

You're going to die if you don't stretch!
Heh, heh, heh.

ChuckNorris
20-Jul-2016
9:38:09 PM
As my alcoholic Russian uncle used to say "he who does not drink or smoke* will die a healthy man".

*or stretch. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Eduardo Slabofvic
20-Jul-2016
9:54:09 PM
On 20/07/2016 Stugang wrote:
>As my alcoholic Russian uncle
>
>

Just take the drugs Stu, and no one will judge you
devlin66
20-Jul-2016
10:07:52 PM
Really depends on the individual. I've ridden since about '86 and climbed since about '93. I've not stretched as much as I should ie. there were periods where I did stretch post exercise and periods where I just wasn't bothered. I've always had good flexibility. Much better than most and always had comments about it. I put that down to genetics rather than anything I did. Andy Richardson has shite natural flexibility and look what he has achieved. Running si good cross training. The impact helps with bone density and it's cheaper to do. The use the muscles slightly differently for each activity.

Basically if you have shit natural flexibility you'll have to work at it and if your lucky like me you can be a slack arse. If you want to do things properly, warm up slowly, cool down properly and stretch the worked muscles afterwards to elongate them after contracting so much. Helps them recover faster as much as reducing injuries.

Miguel75
21-Jul-2016
9:20:22 PM
On 20/07/2016 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>On 18/07/2016 Miguel75 wrote:
>>my new Mtb
>>
>
>Do you have a 27 or a 29?
>
>My old 27" hard tail need serious upgrades to the extent that it could
>be cheaper to get a second hand bike, so wondering if 29s are worth it.

I went 27.5 and really like it though I can't say I've noticed a huge difference from my previous 26er. I'd say go demo a few different bikes in each size and see what you think...

There are 20 messages in this topic.

 

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