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Stop saying "SAFE"

earwig

20-Jan-2015
2:47:15 PM

For me, the key rules are:
1: Don’t climb until you hear your belayer call ‘On Belay’,
2: Once you call ‘on belay’ you keep the climber on belay until they call ‘Safe’.
3: Don’t call ‘safe’ until you are happy to accept total responsibility for not falling. That is, safe means I no longer need a belay.
So, before we begin
READY TO CLIMB – I am safe and ready for action, but I shan’t be going anywhere until you inform me that I am on belay.
ON BELAY, CLIMB WHEN READY or just ON BELAY – I have you on belay and accept responsibility for your safety
CLIMBING – I believe that you have me on belay so I’m heading on up
Then along the way
AT RUNNER – so I’m going to stop climbing while I fix/remove an anchor
CLIMBING – runner is in, bloody bomber too, and I’m climbing again/runner has been removed, and gosh it was real bomber too, and I’m climbing again
SLACK PLEASE – can you play out some rope please
TAKE IN – the rope seems a little loose for my personal taste, can you please remedy that situation
And at the top of a pitch or climb
I’M THERE – There being the top of the climb/pitch, so I’m going to stop climbing while I make myself secure. There is also the rather redundant I’M HERE for when you’re seconding, which usually gets the response I CAN SEE THAT YOU DIPSTICK. I’m there does not mean safe but means I’m not climbing and will probably be dicking around for a bit so keep me on belay.
SAFE – I am now assuming full responsibility for my safety
OFF BELAY – I have no responsibility for your safety.
And generally
OKAY – Heard you and understood (an echo to every call)
SAY AGAIN – Sorry, didn’t catch that
WATCH ME – The next moment might be spectacular for a good/bad reason so please pay attention
BELOW – I seem to have dislodged/dropped something.

Jayford4321

20-Jan-2015
3:05:43 PM

On 12/01/2015 mikllaw wrote:
>Vanessa started saying things like "TAFE","I'm safe to take", "take in safe", and "SAKE" just to be confusing.

I am still laffing at that post.


Eduardo Slabofvic

20-Jan-2015
5:13:13 PM

On 20/01/2015 earwig wrote:
>For me, the key rules are:
>1: Don’t climb until you hear your belayer call ‘On Belay’,
>2: Once you call ‘on belay’ you keep the climber on belay until they call
>‘Safe’.
>3: Don’t call ‘safe’ until you are happy to accept total responsibility
>for not falling. That is, safe means I no longer need a belay.
>So, before we begin
>READY TO CLIMB – I am safe and ready for action, but I shan’t be going
>anywhere until you inform me that I am on belay.
>ON BELAY, CLIMB WHEN READY or just ON BELAY – I have you on belay and
>accept responsibility for your safety
>CLIMBING – I believe that you have me on belay so I’m heading on up
>Then along the way
>AT RUNNER – so I’m going to stop climbing while I fix/remove an anchor
>CLIMBING – runner is in, bloody bomber too, and I’m climbing again/runner
>has been removed, and gosh it was real bomber too, and I’m climbing again
>SLACK PLEASE – can you play out some rope please
>TAKE IN – the rope seems a little loose for my personal taste, can you
>please remedy that situation
>And at the top of a pitch or climb
>I’M THERE – There being the top of the climb/pitch, so I’m going to stop
>climbing while I make myself secure. There is also the rather redundant
>I’M HERE for when you’re seconding, which usually gets the response I CAN
>SEE THAT YOU DIPSTICK. I’m there does not mean safe but means I’m not climbing
>and will probably be dicking around for a bit so keep me on belay.
>SAFE – I am now assuming full responsibility for my safety
>OFF BELAY – I have no responsibility for your safety.
>And generally
>OKAY – Heard you and understood (an echo to every call)
>SAY AGAIN – Sorry, didn’t catch that
>WATCH ME – The next moment might be spectacular for a good/bad reason
>so please pay attention
>BELOW – I seem to have dislodged/dropped something.
>

I can Translate this into Kweenzlairnderiea for you: -

WHAT?

WHAT?

WHAT?

WHAT?

WHAT?

WHAT?


sliamese

22-Jan-2015
10:15:47 PM

Whoa thats a lot of rules to remember!!

Threading an anchor: Don't say a word. clip in, they(belayer) still keep you on belay, never having to take your weight. they just keep giving you slack as you need. You can do the dirty then just say 'take there please buddy' onto the rope. now unclip and voila! very little chance for any communication faux pas. we all know what's going to happen up there, don't overcomplicate it!

Multi-pitch climbing, just shout off belay. then on belay when they can start climbing and then keep fishing for slack. When the rope stops coming in, they've probably stopped for a quick spell.

But then again maybe some people like rules...


ChuckNorris

22-Jan-2015
10:41:20 PM

Agree the complexity of responses and rules is out of hand.... Just imagine the scene at South Central when everyone is using the best practice of four tugs for safe, two tugs for can you please take a foto, and three tugs for let me down, or tug tug tug tug ...... Pause........tug tug tug ......pause. ..tug tug tug of I need a girlfriend.

maxdacat

23-Jan-2015
8:36:46 AM

On 20/01/2015 earwig wrote:
>For me, the key rules are:

WHAT I LEARNED IN VERTICAL LIMIT....GOTTA CHECK YOUR SAFETY!


regdog55

23-Jan-2015
9:50:47 AM

My partner and I started using little walkie talkies (Dick Smith, cheap as, have lasted for years) for multi-pitch climbs and/or windy day climbing. Saves so much hassle, and very easy on the vocal cords. Also provides opportunities for mid-climb abusive language towards belayer/climber without shouting. Need to remember to remove the batteries when storing the walkie talkies (otherwise the power drains), but other than that, very hassle-free.

Wendy

23-Jan-2015
10:07:34 AM

I think we missed a few here, I'll just fill them in

On 20/01/2015 earwig wrote:

>So, before we begin

HANG ON, I NEED A PEE FIRST - I am rather nervous about this lead

>READY TO CLIMB – I am safe and ready for action, but I shan’t be going
>anywhere until you inform me that I am on belay.
>ON BELAY, CLIMB WHEN READY or just ON BELAY – I have you on belay and
>accept responsibility for your safety
>CLIMBING – I believe that you have me on belay so I’m heading on up
>Then along the way
>AT RUNNER – so I’m going to stop climbing while I fix/remove an anchor

FÜCK - there goes the skin on my knuckles trying to remove another of your deep set bloody pieces

>CLIMBING – runner is in, bloody bomber too, and I’m climbing again/runner
>has been removed, and gosh it was real bomber too, and I’m climbing again
>SLACK PLEASE – can you play out some rope please

SLACK, FÜCKING SLACK NOW - either you can't belay for shît or i can't manage rope drag for shit

>TAKE IN – the rope seems a little loose for my personal taste, can you
>please remedy that situation

TAKE IN THEM MILLIMETRES - of course i'd only say this in honour of chris baxter, not cause i'm scared.

>And at the top of a pitch or climb
>I’M THERE – There being the top of the climb/pitch, so I’m going to stop
>climbing while I make myself secure.

REALLY, WHERE'S THERE? AT THE CRUX, THE REST, THE DREADED OFFWIDTH IN THE MIDDLE, THE TOP, OUTER MONGOLIA?

There is also the rather redundant
>I’M HERE for when you’re seconding, which usually gets the response I CAN
>SEE THAT YOU DIPSTICK. I’m there does not mean safe but means I’m not climbing
>and will probably be dicking around for a bit so keep me on belay.
>SAFE – I am now assuming full responsibility for my safety
>OFF BELAY – I have no responsibility for your safety.
>And generally
>OKAY – Heard you and understood (an echo to every call)
>SAY AGAIN – Sorry, didn’t catch that
>WATCH ME – The next moment might be spectacular for a good/bad reason
>so please pay attention
>BELOW – I seem to have dislodged/dropped something.
>

I'm surprised this list doesn't include MOVING LEFT FOOT, RESTING, SCRATCHING NOSE

There are rather doubltlessly a ton of redundant calls some people make, but one that I do actually use occasionally is CLIPPING, which i'd actually suggest is a lot more useful call than at runner, because what really happens when you say at runner? Nothing. You wait a bit. It's nice as a belayer to be warned you need to feed out rope in a hurry now and it's nice to have a smooth feed of rope rather than catch your belayer unawares and not getting enough rope in a hurry. It's often actually extended to CLIPPING REAL BLOODY QUICK NOW, and followed by OH THANK FÜCK FOR THAT. And if i've been hanging out somewhere for a long time, i'll say something like I'M GOING FOR IT NOW, which in all honesty is frequently followed by, OH, ACTUALLY, NO, I'M NOT.

All this rigmarole is lovely when you can communicate. I'm probably also chatting away about our assorted sex lives, relationship dramas, world politics etc etc. When you can communicate, you really have to trust each other to read what is happening with the rope in line with what is to be expected from the pitch, think about it senisible and maintain standard practices. And it's amazing what this lack of direct communication does for increasing your feeling of being out there - being around an arete, in a howling gale, at the end of the pitch really tends to leave me feeling almost on my own even though my brain is aware of the existance of rope and belayer.


Duang Daunk

23-Jan-2015
10:25:38 AM

On 23/01/2015 Wendy wrote:
>and if i've been hanging out somewhere for a long time, i'll say something like I'M GOING FOR IT NOW, which in all honesty is frequently followed by, OH, ACTUALLY, NO, I'M NOT.

That's good to know sis, cos I thought I was the only one who did that.

Ay M9 bro, I'm told your hearing isn't the greatest, so how do you cope with the comms?

kieranl

23-Jan-2015
10:35:14 AM

On 23/01/2015 Duang Daunk wrote:

>Ay M9 bro, I'm told your hearing isn't the greatest, so how do you cope
>with the comms?
>

He uses morse code. No-one else can understand it so there's no confusion.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Jan-2015
10:08:52 AM

On 23/01/2015 kieranl wrote:
>On 23/01/2015 Duang Daunk wrote:
>
>>Ay M9 bro, I'm told your hearing isn't the greatest, so how do you cope with the comms?
>>
>
>He uses morse code. No-one else can understand it so there's no confusion.

I will pay that, as adventure comes in many guises!

Communication is made more effective when all parties concerned know the system and what to expect, though as my hearing deteriorates I am more inclined to go down the walky-talky-comms track.

kieranl

28-Jan-2015
12:01:47 PM

You did make reference to using morse code in your aidfest report, M9. ;)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Jan-2015
12:07:10 PM

On 28/01/2015 kieranl wrote:
>You did make reference to using morse code in your aidfest report, M9.
>;)
Yes. I figured that was what you were referring to, that is why I agreed (sic I will pay that), with you!


ajfclark

2-Mar-2015
10:52:57 AM

On 12/01/2015 mikllaw wrote:
>Accident report to follow I hope, but yet again someone topped a pitch
>and used the magic word "Safe". Belayer took them off belay. Person got
>back on rope and fell whole pitch.
>
>Don't say "Safe" when you're not safe.
>
>For instance, if you're threading the anchors on a sport route, don't
>say "Safe".
>A better term is "In Hard" as :-
>-it doesn't sound like anything else
>-it tells your belayer that you're clipped into something and to keep
>them on belay
>-it says that you'll need slack soon, and that you'll need to be lowered
>-it says please stay on belay.
>(Your belayer may pull through a bit of slack and tie a double overhand
>below the device as a backup.)
>
>On another note, 'Safe' sounds a lot like 'Take'. I've started using the
>illogical Americanism "Off belay" (illogical as your belayer is the one
>who takes you off belay) as it doesn't sound like anything else.

Was this sparked by this accident?

http://www.onsight.com.au/2015/03/groundfall/

prb

2-Mar-2015
11:51:21 AM

The lesson from the link above is don't say anything until you have secured yourself on a ledge or cliff-top, a rule I don't always stick to but should.

One Day Hero

3-Mar-2015
4:23:06 PM

On 2/03/2015 ajfclark wrote:
>Was this sparked by this accident?

Yep

There are 96 messages in this topic.