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Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 4 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 96
Author
Stop saying "SAFE"

ajfclark
15-Jan-2015
11:01:57 AM

On 15/01/2015 gfdonc wrote:
>You missed an important detail in my description of the tugging. 2 tugs,
>repeated with a few seconds in-between.
>tug, tug .. pause, count to 5, then tug, tug.
>
>Avoids the possibility of the signal being confused by rope drag or desperate
>clips.
>

Pulls up rope to mouth, fumbles clip, shake out to try again... pulls up rope to mouth, clips...

"Off belay!"
kieranl
15-Jan-2015
12:18:13 PM
What would you yell if you saw someone drop a safe off the top of a cliff?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
15-Jan-2015
12:41:57 PM
On 13/01/2015 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 13/01/2015 gnaguts wrote:
>>Yeh but where does getting dropped by yer belayer due poor communication
>>fit into ya hudt scale?
>
>Going by the number accidents which happen this way, confusion regarding
>ones current state of belayedness is dangerous as fuch.
>>
>>Seems like experience isn't enough and payin attention an being careful
>>(uncommon sense?), should still be the go.
>
>I suspect that a large percentage of the cunning cat-like survival instincts
>possessed by old fart climbers are impossible to teach, and instead can
>only be learned properly via a series of sphincter-clenching near misses.
>Maybe that's a cop out, but most of the climbers I know who are really
>situation-aware and competent have survived shocking fuch ups which their
>older self would never have allowed to happen.

Shit happens.
It needn't be sphincter tightening and can also be outside your control, older self or not.
An example, ... I once started a multipitch with a bloke I had not climbed with before, but by all accounts came across as experienced.
The usual visual checks of rope tied in, buckles done up properly etc were done.
He led the fist pitch while I belayed.
Contrary to a statement of his about usually lacing up the first half of a pitch and running it out more in the second half, he did not place much gear.
He got to the first belay, a small but comfortable stance with two bolts, and was mostly visible to me standing at base of the route with him still on belay.
Next thing, to my surprise, the lead rope whizzes back to the ground at my feet, and I see him a pitch up & ropeless!!
No amount of calls or specific words used could account for that.
He had plenty of gear & slings with him, and claims the dropped rope was accidental, but despite my logic in trying to understand why, only he & God knows why it was untied...

So the readers are not left stranded like he was at that point, I soloed up a parallel route to a stance where I could throw him his end of the lead rope, which he caught and re-attached to, then I down-climbed back to the ground.
I allowed myself to be belayed while seconding to his stance, checked the belay and rigged for retreat, as I had no wish to go higher after that...

Yes, uncommon sense is the go!

ambyeok
15-Jan-2015
1:09:27 PM
On 15/01/2015 peteclimbs wrote:
>Re: the tug system
>
>I love it when you're climbing somewhere tall and windy and comms are
>tricky and your climber gives, say, two tugs to signal that they're safe,
>so you start taking them off belay. Halfway through the process of removing
>the rope from belay device they give another couple of big ol' tugs to
>make sure you got the message. Hopefully you know how to belay on a munter.

You can remove the rope from the belay device without removing the belay device's 'loop' from your carabiner. This has the added bonus of your not gonna ever drop your belay device on a multipitch. Just bring the biner back enough to let the rope slip over then immediately lock it back up. No problem.

hangdog
15-Jan-2015
2:22:55 PM
On 15/01/2015 ajfclark wrote:
>
>On 15/01/2015 gfdonc wrote:
>>You missed an important detail in my description of the tugging. 2 tugs,
>>repeated with a few seconds in-between.
>>tug, tug .. pause, count to 5, then tug, tug.
>>
>>Avoids the possibility of the signal being confused by rope drag or desperate
>>clips.
>>
>
>Pulls up rope to mouth, fumbles clip, shake out to try again... pulls
>up rope to mouth, clips...
>
>"Off belay!"


Exactly. Tugging the rope is not a safe method of communication.
Justcameron
15-Jan-2015
3:12:06 PM
With regard to communicating when voice doesn't work my general practice is as follows:

- When climbing with a new partner, do some pitches where communication is easy first.
- Understand what the leader and belayer are doing
- Leader climbs, regularly pausing to place protection.
- Leader reaches belay ledge, pauses for several minutes to build a belay
- Belayer waits patiently, recognises that leader is stationary
- Leader builds anchor, clips in, yells "Geoff I'm SAFE"
- Belayer hears nothing, keeps rope in belay device. Knows leader has been standing still for a while though. Knowing pitch length also is evidence that leader is at the belay
- Leader prepares belay device on anchor
- Leader starts pulling rope up very fast
- Belayer pays all rope out through belay device, but the evidence is pointing to the fact that the leader is safe and pulling up rope. Or otherwise the leader is running across a field dragging the rope.
- Rope comes tight on belayer's harness, belayer yells "Cameron that's me"
- Leader hears nothing, but immediately puts rope in belay device. Calls "Geoff you're on belay"
- Belayer hears nothing but the evidence is pointing towards him being on belay.
- Belayer takes rope out of belay device carefully (as already described by other posters above.) If the device can't be removed, it can stay in the system with no ill effects.
- Belayer calls "I'm climbing Cameron" - leader doesn't hear.
- Belayer takes one step forward/upwards and rope gets taken in immediately.
- Evidence points to belayer being on belay. At worst we are simul climbing.

hangdog
15-Jan-2015
3:48:10 PM
On 15/01/2015 Justcameron wrote:
>With regard to communicating when voice doesn't work my general practice
>is as follows:
>
>- When climbing with a new partner, do some pitches where communication
>is easy first.
>- Understand what the leader and belayer are doing
>- Leader climbs, regularly pausing to place protection.
>- Leader reaches belay ledge, pauses for several minutes to build a belay
>- Belayer waits patiently, recognises that leader is stationary
>- Leader builds anchor, clips in, yells "Geoff I'm SAFE"
>- Belayer hears nothing, keeps rope in belay device. Knows leader has
>been standing still for a while though. Knowing pitch length also is evidence
>that leader is at the belay
>- Leader prepares belay device on anchor
>- Leader starts pulling rope up very fast
>- Belayer pays all rope out through belay device, but the evidence is
>pointing to the fact that the leader is safe and pulling up rope. Or otherwise
>the leader is running across a field dragging the rope.
>- Rope comes tight on belayer's harness, belayer yells "Cameron that's
>me"
>- Leader hears nothing, but immediately puts rope in belay device. Calls
>"Geoff you're on belay"
>- Belayer hears nothing but the evidence is pointing towards him being
>on belay.
>- Belayer takes rope out of belay device carefully (as already described
>by other posters above.) If the device can't be removed, it can stay in
>the system with no ill effects.
>- Belayer calls "I'm climbing Cameron" - leader doesn't hear.
>- Belayer takes one step forward/upwards and rope gets taken in immediately.
>- Evidence points to belayer being on belay. At worst we are simul climbing.

Absolutely spot on

ajfclark
15-Jan-2015
3:59:43 PM
On 15/01/2015 Justcameron wrote:
>With regard to communicating when voice doesn't work my general practice
>is as follows:
>
>- When climbing with a new partner, do some pitches where communication
>is easy first.
>- Understand what the leader and belayer are doing
>- Leader climbs, regularly pausing to place protection.
>- Leader reaches belay ledge, pauses for several minutes to build a belay
>- Belayer waits patiently, recognises that leader is stationary
>- Leader builds anchor, clips in, yells "Geoff I'm SAFE"
>- Belayer hears nothing, keeps rope in belay device. Knows leader has
>been standing still for a while though. Knowing pitch length also is evidence
>that leader is at the belay
>- Leader prepares belay device on anchor

Leader puts second on belay and starts belaying, usually very quickly.
BA
15-Jan-2015
5:24:50 PM
On 15/01/2015 kieranl wrote:
>What would you yell if you saw someone drop a safe off the top of a cliff?

I would start singing "We're in the money ..."

Superstu
15-Jan-2015
8:06:04 PM
On 15/01/2015 kieranl wrote:
>What would you yell if you saw someone drop a safe off the top of a cliff?

Pennies from heaven!

ambyeok
16-Jan-2015
1:16:59 PM
Climbers are a very glass half full kind of community. Sorry to rain on your parade but the safe is obviously empty. Bah humbug.

ChuckNorris
16-Jan-2015
5:52:10 PM
On 15/01/2015 Superstu wrote:
>On 15/01/2015 kieranl wrote:
>>What would you yell if you saw someone drop a safe off the top of a cliff?
>
>Pennies from heaven!



I'd set up anchor and rap off. I wouldn't call anything hoping the safe would collect anybody down below that might want a cut in the booty (including my belayer - especially if it was Eduardo).

Eduardo Slabofvic
16-Jan-2015
10:55:52 PM
On 16/01/2015 Stugang wrote:
>On 15/01/2015 Superstu wrote:
>>On 15/01/2015 kieranl wrote:
>>>What would you yell if you saw someone drop a safe off the top of a
>cliff?
>>
>>Pennies from heaven!
>
>
>
>I'd set up anchor and rap off. I wouldn't call anything hoping the safe
>would collect anybody down below that might want a cut in the booty (including
>my belayer - especially if it was Eduardo).

Ahh, but you forget, I'm a Kweenslairndera. I would be sitting under a tree 20m away listening to the cricket on my radio earplugs, with the rope in reasonable proximity to the belay device, rolling a cigarette with both hands (as I've never served in the Navy). The safe would miss me, and I would miss it, but I would not miss you, as my aim has improved

ChuckNorris
16-Jan-2015
11:32:52 PM
OK You win.


ChuckNorris
17-Jan-2015
5:14:55 PM
I miss bomber pro. This is the sort of topic that he would tell us in no uncertain terms what the correct practice is.

Without his guidance I'm lost.

Eduardo Slabofvic
17-Jan-2015
5:27:30 PM
On 17/01/2015 Stugang wrote:
>I
>Without his guidance I'm lost.

Make a log book to record all the safes. You'll be fine

ChuckNorris
17-Jan-2015
10:18:25 PM
Thanks ed you're awesome I'm now keeping a safe log. By the way will my rope last longer now I have a log?
Mr Poopypants
17-Jan-2015
11:58:56 PM
Better to rope your logs.

Eduardo Slabofvic
18-Jan-2015
12:06:07 AM
On 17/01/2015 Stugang wrote:
>Thanks ed you're awesome I'm now keeping a safe log. By the way will my
>rope last longer now I have a log?

It will, but make sure you keep the log from rolling on it.
Jayford4321
19-Jan-2015
3:47:28 PM
On 17/01/2015 Stugang wrote:
>I miss bomber pro. This is the sort of topic that he would tell us in
>no uncertain terms what the correct practice is.
>
>Without his guidance I'm lost.

I miss timtam and his psychedelic point of view.

You were lost before that stupoo, but Ed is just being nice to humour you.
He told me you need to keep yourself logged so you know where you are.

The correct practice is the one survived, but this assumes the annual vaccinations have happened first.

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There are 96 messages in this topic.

 

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