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Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 74
Author
TR - Mt Buffalo Southside Gorge FA
Wendy
25-Apr-2018
11:29:32 AM
i go and have shoulder surgery, and chockstone produces its most interesting 2 threads of the past 5 years for me. fantastic!

i had eyed off this line before. i mumbled about making plans to do it with singersmith or even m9. But the tradition of the moment is that other people jump on lines i'm thinking about whilst im injured :(. Geoff was toproping a route on the pharos i'd been planning on doing this summer the other day. if you believe in karma, you might be amused that he clonked himself in the head with a hold he ripped off. and chris destroyed his harness on this one ... and his shoulder by the sounds of things. shoulder surgery sucks, Chris. my commiserations.

i think we can safely say i wouldn't have lead the thing if there wasn't any gear smaller than a valley giant in it. maybe singersmith might. if i can ever overcome the challenges of getting this shoulder better, getting fit again, and probably the greatest of them all, finding someone who wants to climb it with me, i'd happily clip the bolts. I'm not entirely sure i'd have been comfortable placing them, and i probably would have just left it with a tr myself, but i'm ambivalent about it enough to appreciate them should i ever get on it.

I really doubt that the bolts will excite a new generation off width climbers though. Almost all climbers won't be able to do enough moves to even get between the bolts. If the ease of putting a tr on cacophonic crack hasn't brought the masses to the delights of offidths, 4 bolts in a harder, dirtier offwidth at the top of a long pitch of crack climbing isn't going to either. Chris and Tim are just special climbers :)

What disturbs me more is the sideline mention of highlining anchors appearing all over the place at Buffalo. So now i'll go over to the other thread to have a little rant about those.

bigchris
25-Apr-2018
1:12:12 PM
I was wondering how long it would be before we heard from you :D


On 25-Apr-2018 Wendy wrote:
>i go and have shoulder surgery, and chockstone produces its most interesting
>2 threads of the past 5 years for me. fantastic!
>
>i had eyed off this line before. i mumbled about making plans to do it
>with singersmith or even m9. But the tradition of the moment is that other
>people jump on lines i'm thinking about whilst im injured :(. Geoff was
>toproping a route on the pharos i'd been planning on doing this summer
>the other day. if you believe in karma, you might be amused that he clonked
>himself in the head with a hold he ripped off. and chris destroyed his
>harness on this one ... and his shoulder by the sounds of things. shoulder
>surgery sucks, Chris. my commiserations.

It's all good - my harness was probably due to be replaced anyway from crawling up trenches and giant cracks and my shoulder was knackered before this and its starting to come good :D

>
>i think we can safely say i wouldn't have lead the thing if there wasn't
>any gear smaller than a valley giant in it. maybe singersmith might. if
>i can ever overcome the challenges of getting this shoulder better, getting
>fit again, and probably the greatest of them all, finding someone who wants
>to climb it with me, i'd happily clip the bolts.

I'm sure you'll find it sufficiently pants-pooping anyway :D

>
>I really doubt that the bolts will excite a new generation off width climbers
>though. Almost all climbers won't be able to do enough moves to even get
>between the bolts. If the ease of putting a tr on cacophonic crack hasn't
>brought the masses to the delights of offidths, 4 bolts in a harder, dirtier
>offwidth at the top of a long pitch of crack climbing isn't going to either.
>Chris and Tim are just special climbers :)

I don't think Tim had much say in the matter - "DUDE LETS GO DO THIS" "Ummmmmm ok?"

>
>What disturbs me more is the sideline mention of highlining anchors appearing
>all over the place at Buffalo. So now i'll go over to the other thread
>to have a little rant about those.

Tim and I saw a few different sets up near LGL, Country Road, and of course they would have partner anchors on the other side of the Gorge. I can't say I care enough about them to get my knickers in a twist and it seems like the dude from the other thread put them in. There well out of the way of anyone seeing them (at least I thought so) so no harm, no foul (on these ones).
Wendy
27-Apr-2018
11:03:05 AM
On 25-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>
>It's all good - my harness was probably due to be replaced anyway from
>crawling up trenches and giant cracks and my shoulder was knackered before
>this and its starting to come good :D

Wish my shoulder would just come good like that :(

>
>>
>>I really doubt that the bolts will excite a new generation off width
>climbers
>>though. Almost all climbers won't be able to do enough moves to even
>get
>>between the bolts. If the ease of putting a tr on cacophonic crack hasn't
>>brought the masses to the delights of offidths, 4 bolts in a harder,
>dirtier
>>offwidth at the top of a long pitch of crack climbing isn't going to
>either.
>>Chris and Tim are just special climbers :)
>
>I don't think Tim had much say in the matter - "DUDE LETS GO DO THIS"
>"Ummmmmm ok?"
>

Tim probably had a lot of practice at that growing up. noddy "This'll be a great new route. the next bard!" Tim looks at mossy chossy line " ummmm, ok?"
>>
>>What disturbs me more is the sideline mention of highlining anchors appearing
>>all over the place at Buffalo. So now i'll go over to the other thread
>>to have a little rant about those.
>
>Tim and I saw a few different sets up near LGL, Country Road, and of course
>they would have partner anchors on the other side of the Gorge. I can't
>say I care enough about them to get my knickers in a twist and it seems
>like the dude from the other thread put them in. There well out of the
>way of anyone seeing them (at least I thought so) so no harm, no foul (on
>these ones).

What gets me, is that we all leave fixed anchors on trees, bollards and gear to rap into those areas. Why can't highliners build similar anchors?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27-Apr-2018
6:18:44 PM
On 13-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>On 13-Apr-2018 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>I can see the dis-join arising here in that the younger climber of today
>>hasnít been born long enough ago to fulfill that statement due either
>>not being in existence or not learning climbing with that older yardstick.
>
>Yes and true. However I dont entirely think it's relevant? Maybe it is,
>maybe it's not. I raised a point the other day with another climber (who's
>got the second ascent), that if drills were around in the early days, there
>would be a heap more bolts about. The "old yardstick" isn't going to hang
>around forever because I can't do anything about when I was born. I've
>only been climbing for around 6 years or something.
>
The old yardstick which you are attributing to a convenience factor is actually more than that.
It is a state of mind accompanied by a skillset gained to match it.
Our Australian climbing history is present in multiple forms, probably the most enduring of which is the minimalist bolted routes that already exist.
Living memory will die off with original ascentionists departing this life, but original guidebooks will endure a little longer...
As you get older I suspect that you will consider it more relevant.

>I also think that this is one reason why people.dont climb at Buffalo - they think it's run out and dangerous.
>>
Some climbs located there are as you describe by today's lightweight yardstick, but this is a matter of perspectives.
Personally I agree with DD's post earlier, that they are something good left as is to aspire to.
If they are written up true to their character then people can choose to do them or not, as the case may be.
People choosing not climbing at Buffalo might well be considered a good thing by some devotees(!), and if they accidentally stray into this historically rich area then the best tip I can give them is to beware most climbs that have K. Lindorff recorded as a first ascentionist!!

>>The others can speak for themselves however the fact that you cited the
>Monarch example is proof positive of the existence of the earlier yardstick
>>and dare I say a level of achievement to aspire too.
>
>I don't agree with you on this one Rod. Running a whole pitch with no
>gear is not smart. There's a reason no one climbs Monarch - no gear. I'd
>love to give it a go, but I won't be if it's not protectable. On a side
>note, I dont even know how to get to the bottom of it :D
>
See my comment above.
I learnt thrutching in protectionless pitches long ago.
I also free solo from time to time, as well as rope-solo.
The common theme in both of those activities is the mental aspect required to be successful at it, and after you reach your physical limits in climbing, as I have at a relatively modest grade, I have found the mental aspects of climbing prove to be a far richer area to explore...
>>
(snip)
>>
>>Regardless, the positive aspect of this ascent is that Typhon in its
>current
>>state may well turn out to be a popular stepping stone to the older style
>>for generations that follow.
>
>I agree. And for people that don't have access to wide gear will still
>find it run out as f**k and pants-shittingly scary. It's bold as all hell.

... But probably not for someone who just finished climbing Monarch!



>**********************
(snip)
>
>I also pulled the lip of Country Road and then fell out of the headwall.
>Those bolts need to be replaced. Or even for historical value, it would
>be much easier if they stayed where they were and two bolts were put in
>the wall to the right. That's an accident/death waiting to happen (we actually
>had a couple of cams in the crack which made the belay freaking uncomfortable
>- but you get my point).
>
I disagree.
The bolts are located fine for the first ascentionists and many many repeat ascentionists, including me...


I suggest that you adapt your style to using them 'as is' for location, towards achieving a safer or more comfortable outcome.

bigchris
27-Apr-2018
9:20:45 PM
Right, so replace them then? They're 50 years old and not in a good way.

And just re-hang the bottle?
Wendy
28-Apr-2018
2:11:38 PM
I've not actually done the first pitch of CR but i was wondering if it was possible to link them with double ropes and avoid the hanging belay? it is less than 30m.

bigchris
28-Apr-2018
5:50:11 PM
You could link them with a single but you're gonna have a bad time.

Macciza
28-Apr-2018
6:46:26 PM
Bad time?
Proper planning, long enough runners, and commitment and it would be fine, i reckon ...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Apr-2018
8:09:21 PM
On 27-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>Right, so replace them then? They're 50 years old and not in a good way.
>
>
>And just re-hang the bottle?

I am not one of the first ascentionists so my opinion is less important than theirs and they need to be consulted; however for what it's worth if the belay bolts are unsafe then replacing them like-for-like (especially for location vicinity) with modern grade stainless glue in bolts with fixed hangers would be my preference.

My memory of that climb (I've done it more than once), is that the belay can be backed up with trad gear, and yes, the pitches can be run together with a 60 m rope (as I am doing in the photo above); however I did use the original belay as an interim re-belay point for convenience since I was roped soloing (at the time that photo was taken), and it was handy to suspend the weight of my excess rope off it.

Re the bottle.
It is an intriguing (if not unique) part of the climb.
Here is a link to a thread/post regarding the bottle and the first ascent...
http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Display&MessageID=128497&PagePos=&Sort=

If the original bolt/s are still usable as redundancy backup (??) then I'd leave it still hanging off them...

If the original ascentionists say the bottle should go, then so be it, but I'd be a little sad if that turns out to be the case, as it has now stood the test of time in my opinion...

(PS Part of the bottle concerned is visible just right of my right hand in the photo above!)


PeterW
28-Apr-2018
10:02:33 PM
Since you're not likely to hear from Nic, I guess I qualify as the first ascent representative. My vote is for updating the belay bolts, although I'd make this case an exception to the usual rule and also leave the original bottle bolt with the bottle as a piece if history. (If anyone is silly enough to still belay off it, then let Darwin have the final say!) The "new" bolt should be reasonably close to the original to avoid changing the "flavour" of the belay too much.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30-Apr-2018
7:09:37 PM
On 25-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>>On 25-Apr-2018 Wendy wrote:
>>What disturbs me more is the sideline mention of highlining anchors appearing
>>all over the place at Buffalo. So now i'll go over to the other thread
>>to have a little rant about those.
>
>Tim and I saw a few different sets up near LGL, Country Road, and of course
>they would have partner anchors on the other side of the Gorge. I can't
>say I care enough about them to get my knickers in a twist and it seems
>like the dude from the other thread put them in. There well out of the
>way of anyone seeing them (at least I thought so) so no harm, no foul (on
>these ones).

My guess is that the highline probably goes from Country Road to Lift Girls Lament, rather than across the gorge, however I could easily be wrong, ... and if I'm not then I suspect it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Even from CR to LGL the line would be plainly visible to tourons at the major lookout of Guide Alice's Lookdown at Pulpit Rock, and given PV's stance on climbers bolts generally, I'd be surprised if they condone these new phenomena ones.

Duang Daunk
1-May-2018
1:48:38 PM
Top photo bro M9.
The orange area on wall lower left side is a remains of fallen block yeah?
If so, then the place is falling down and it doesnít matter where any bolts go!
geoff.l
2-May-2018
7:46:04 PM
On 25-Apr-2018 Wendy wrote:
>i had eyed off this line before. i mumbled about making plans to do it with singersmith or even m9. But the tradition of the moment is that other people jump on lines i'm thinking about whilst im injured :(. Geoff was toproping a route on the pharos i'd been planning on doing this summer the other day. if you believe in karma, you might be amused that he clonked himself in the head with a hold he ripped off. and chris destroyed his harness on this one ... and his shoulder by the sounds of things. shoulder surgery sucks, Chris. my commiserations.

Wendy, someone showed me a post from this site where you mentioned your opinions on how I go about my climbing activities, since you used this media as the carriage, it seems appropriate to respond via the same.
What line did I jump on that you had your eye on. I was cleaning up something that I put up with Tony Dignan in 1979, were you looking at it then? How old were you then?
Fact is when we put it up, we described it as it was, you start from a fist jam and go through a classic arapilies bum, so we called it "A bum full of fists" submitted to VCC Argus and they rejected the name and refused to publish it, and we didn't find that reason enough to change the name to keep the beard strockers and religious zealots have their way.
Furthermore you may have thought that I was on a route where you have a lower off on (nearby) something you were trying, You need to do your research a lot better than that in future before getting stuck into me, I don't operate like that, if someone had equipped a route (maybe even tagged it, I would not go there) I even enquired with Glen about where you may have been looking/trying something prior to your injury. Then you mention karma and getting hit on the head top roping something "WRONG" get your facts right in future!
Regards Geoff pissed off Little!!!
Wendy
3-May-2018
6:55:37 AM
Sorry Geoff, I'm not angry about it at all, I was joking about it! I'm sorry it didn't read that way. I don't think I have any right to claim a route I just had a top rope on. There was a whole bunch of lighthearted jokes between several people about having to get onto all the obscure lines we'd been eyeing off in a hurry these days that might have added con text. If I was angry about it, I would have come to talk to you! I think Keiran might have told me you were reestablishing an old route there that Argus refused to publish due to the name 30 years ago, it's actually the route to the left of the one I hurt my shoulder on, so I didn't even get as far as top roping it, and it wasn't even the one you got clunked by a rock on. So even my misread joke turns out to be totally wrong! Have fun on it, and try not to get hurt!

PS, you are writing on the internet! Have you started an account at thecrag as well? I am looking forward to when you and noddy start putting your routes up there! In desperation, i offered to put Noddy's up, so he is going to cc me in when he emails he routes to argus.

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