Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop
Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60
Author
TR - Mt Buffalo Southside Gorge FA

IdratherbeclimbingM9
13-Apr-2018
7:56:37 PM
On 13-Apr-2018 Miguel75 wrote:
>Super stoked for your BigChris. Itís a proud line (snip)

+1
>
>For all those who are happy to bang on about the desecration these bolts
>represent, youíve had 50+ years to get on it and climb it in a style that
>you consider worthy (snip)

I can see the dis-join arising here in that the younger climber of today hasnít been born long enough ago to fulfill that statement due either not being in existence or not learning climbing with that older yardstick.

>
>MartyM and Jay, you guys are happy to have a casual dig about the number,
>and placements, of the bolts but have either of you tried it? Once you
>two go climb it a-la Mark Davies, in the pic of Monarch, then you can pontificate
>all you like;)
>
The others can speak for themselves however the fact that you cited the Monarch example is proof positive of the existence of the earlier yardstick and dare I say a level of achievement to aspire too.

Not everyone is an Alex Honnold, but none the less I can think of a number of climbers, who if they had cared to climb that line, would probably have done so in a bolder style than that dictated by todayís shorter measure style.

Regardless, the positive aspect of this ascent is that Typhon in its current state may well turn out to be a popular stepping stone to the older style for generations that follow.

bigchris
13-Apr-2018
10:12:08 PM
On 13-Apr-2018 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 13-Apr-2018 Miguel75 wrote:
>>Super stoked for your BigChris. Itís a proud line (snip)
>
>+1
>>

Yay!


>>For all those who are happy to bang on about the desecration these bolts
>>represent, youíve had 50+ years to get on it and climb it in a style
>that
>>you consider worthy (snip)
>
>I can see the dis-join arising here in that the younger climber of today
>hasnít been born long enough ago to fulfill that statement due either not
>being in existence or not learning climbing with that older yardstick.

Yes and true. However I dont entirely think it's relevant? Maybe it is, maybe it's not. I raised a point the other day with another climber (who's got the second ascent), that if drills were around in the early days, there would be a heap more bolts about. The "old yardstick" isn't going to hang around forever because I can't do anything about when I was born. I've only been climbing for around 6 years or something.

I also think that this is one reason why people.dont climb at Buffalo - they think it's run out and dangerous.
>
>
>>
>>MartyM and Jay, you guys are happy to have a casual dig about the number,
>>and placements, of the bolts but have either of you tried it? Once you
>>two go climb it a-la Mark Davies, in the pic of Monarch, then you can
>pontificate
>>all you like;)

Agree. Internet trolls are just that. Trolls. Jayford/gnaguts or whoever you are will unlikely sack up and lead it.

>>
>The others can speak for themselves however the fact that you cited the Monarch example is proof positive of the existence of the earlier yardstick
>and dare I say a level of achievement to aspire too.

I don't agree with you on this one Rod. Running a whole pitch with no gear is not smart. There's a reason no one climbs Monarch - no gear. I'd love to give it a go, but I won't be if it's not protectable. On a side note, I dont even know how to get to the bottom of it :D


>
>Not everyone is an Alex Honnold, but none the less I can think of a number
>of climbers, who if they had cared to climb that line, would probably have
>done so in a bolder style than that dictated by todayís shorter measure
>style.

You know what? There probably are many climbers that would climb it in a bolder style than me but like mike said, they didnt. After breaking my back (yes, literally) and seperating my shoulder (grade 3/4) in August last year, I was not interested in the slightest in injuring myself. I wanted that climb, and as the First Ascensionist I did what was necessary to keep me, my wife and my friends safe, just like any responsible climber should do in my opinion.

Being bold is great, and being dead or munted is not. There's only 4 bolts over 35ish meters. None on the slab, none in the bottom of the cave, and only bolts on the face. I actually climbed it from Agrippa because that's where the comfortable belay was for my Belayer.


>
>Regardless, the positive aspect of this ascent is that Typhon in its current
>state may well turn out to be a popular stepping stone to the older style
>for generations that follow.

I agree. And for people that don't have access to wide gear will still find it run out as f**k and pants-shittingly scary. It's bold as all hell. Also, if people think they're pro enough, they're definitely welcome to not clip the bolts and just look at them on the way past.

**********************

For the record, the technology of a drill and bolts to keep you safe is brilliant. So is trad gear. I'll use either where necessary.

I also pulled the lip of Country Road and then fell out of the headwall. Those bolts need to be replaced. Or even for historical value, it would be much easier if they stayed where they were and two bolts were put in the wall to the right. That's an accident/death waiting to happen (we actually had a couple of cams in the crack which made the belay freaking uncomfortable - but you get my point).

Anyway, that's my 2cents late on a Friday night. I tried freaking hard and I always try to do it the best I can while being safe.
PeterW
13-Apr-2018
11:45:24 PM
On 13-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>I also pulled the lip of Country Road and then fell out of the headwall.
>Those bolts need to be replaced. Or even for historical value, it would
>be much easier if they stayed where they were and two bolts were put in
>the wall to the right. That's an accident/death waiting to happen (we actually
>had a couple of cams in the crack which made the belay freaking uncomfortable
>- but you get my point).

Are you talking about the bolts at the belay at the top of the first pitch? Or has someone added other bolts? I guess the belay bolts could probably do with updating after 42+ years! :-)

BTW, cams? Just remember it was originally climbed with only passive gear! Hexes, and maybe tube chocks (I forget now).

Miguel75
14-Apr-2018
7:21:27 PM
On 13-Apr-2018 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 13-Apr-2018 Miguel75 wrote:
>>Super stoked for your BigChris. Itís a proud line (snip)
>
>+1
>>
>>For all those who are happy to bang on about the desecration these bolts
>>represent, youíve had 50+ years to get on it and climb it in a style
>that
>>you consider worthy (snip)
>
>I can see the dis-join arising here in that the younger climber of today
>hasnít been born long enough ago to fulfill that statement due either not
>being in existence or not learning climbing with that older yardstick.

haha, I realize my late night rant wasn't as salient as I could have been; there are a few climbers who've been around 50+ years, who probably could climb this should they choose. (I was being hyperbolic though I guess you're on that list eh Rod, hehehe) I appreciate the yardstick that's been established, for those who follow to measure themselves against. I can't quite elucidate on what I'm wanting to say as my brain feels damaged but I will try to come back to this at a later date to expound my argument:)

Not too long ago I was pulling bolts out of some egregiously bolted Buffalo climbs with other DCA agents and realise my stance on these bolts may be dichotomous though maybe I'm getting injured too often and need to feel safe. Or maybe I've been hit in the head too many times and can't remember exactly what it was I'm raging against. Either way, Chris did something pretty awesome and some people wish to denigrate that because he made it safer for those who may chose to follow him. My point is/was, many people have bypassed this climb due to lack of interest, skill or gear. Or maybe even plain old fear. Why hasn't anyone climbed it before? I'm guessing it's not going to be a trade route of any kind as I reckon it's too terrifying and brutal to appeal to most climbers.
>>
>>MartyM and Jay, you guys are happy to have a casual dig about the number,
>>and placements, of the bolts but have either of you tried it? Once you
>>two go climb it a-la Mark Davies, in the pic of Monarch, then you can
>pontificate
>>all you like;)
>>
>The others can speak for themselves however the fact that you cited the
>Monarch example is proof positive of the existence of the earlier yardstick
>and dare I say a level of achievement to aspire too.

I agree with the existing yardstick Rod, we should aspire to climb in a way that challenges us though balance that with the belief that a modicum of safety isn't a bad thing, especially when the necessary gear for a climb like this is few and far between. Monarch looks rad and I'd love to know how many people on here have actually climbed it; I'm tipping not many. What I'm not a fan of are people who like to sit in judgement of those who've hopped off the keyboard and done something awesome. If they're happy to put their keyboards where their mouth's are I'll happily pull my head in:)

>Not everyone is an Alex Honnold, but none the less I can think of a number
>of climbers, who if they had cared to climb that line, would probably have
>done so in a bolder style than that dictated by todayís shorter measure
>style.

I reckon you're right, there are some who could have done it in a style that terrifies most people, though for whatever reason they didn't. Chris snaffled the FFA, Tim Lockwood snagged the second ascent. Chris and Philly are the only two people who've obsessed over this line with enough motivation to give it a red hot crack and have decided that 4 bolts work. Maybe two bolts are sufficient. Maybe they aren't necessary at all... All I know is I wont be leading it anytime soon and neither will quite a few of the people having a dig:)

>Regardless, the positive aspect of this ascent is that Typhon in its current
>state may well turn out to be a popular stepping stone to the older style
>for generations that follow.

I hope you're right Rod, maybe Typhon will herald a resurgence of offwidth mania. Maybe a few Chockstoners will jump on this fad:)

Duang Daunk
15-Apr-2018
5:13:37 PM
On 13-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>I raised a point the other day with another climber (who's
>got the second ascent), that if drills were around in the early days, there
>would be a heap more bolts about. The "old yardstick" isn't going to hang
>around forever because I can't do anything about when I was born.

Thin end of the wedge slippery slope here bro, and sure, the old guard will drop off the perch sometime, but the legacy they leave is worth remembering.
>
>I also think that this is one reason why people.dont climb at Buffalo
>- they think it's run out and dangerous.
>>
Yeh? So why have there been countless ascents of climbs like Grunter (see the old guidebook photos M9 posted earlier on your other thread - something about questions about ascents), and suddenly given ten or fifteen years of forgetful memory, or never-was a memory, the new kids on the block being all safety conscious and drill obtainable donít believe what a great experience something hard to achieve mentally and or safely can be?

>Running a whole pitch with no gear is not smart.

Maybe for you bro, but using a drill changes it for everyone.
Iím not against your bolts, just your perception that itís still bold as f--- etc.
Iíve seen your line, now known as Typhon, and the reason it wasnít done earlier is twofold.
1st it is leftovers given the majesty of Monarch just around the corner.
2ndly, re bold yadda yadda, yes itís out there and takes a headspace attitude to even consider, but reality is unlike your last photo of it that includes a large portion of other nearby lines, that it isnít a whole lot of new climbing, hard though it is.


>There's a reason no one climbs Monarch - no gear.

And isnít it good that something like it exists for you to get to if you ever stop getting a thrill out of your present level of climbing?
I also reckon if you do further homework that you will find it does get climbed more than you think, just not by those who feel a need to record it on the interweb.

> I'd love to give it a go, but I won't be if it's not protectable. On a side
>note, I dont even know how to get to the bottom of it :D
>
Your call on that bro. No one is twisting your arm, but beware the what-if gremlins that assault your senses in your dreams.

>
>Being bold is great, and being dead or munted is not. There's only 4 bolts
>over 35ish meters. None on the slab, none in the bottom of the cave, and
>only bolts on the face. I actually climbed it from Agrippa because that's
>where the comfortable belay was for my Belayer.

Even though there are plenty who have died free soloing etc we are glad that you didnít place more, or inadvertently retro any of the climbs around it.
>
>**********************
>
>I also pulled the lip of Country Road and then fell out of the headwall.
>Those bolts need to be replaced. Or even for historical value, it would
>be much easier if they stayed where they were and two bolts were put in
>the wall to the right. That's an accident/death waiting to happen (we actually
>had a couple of cams in the crack which made the belay freaking uncomfortable
>- but you get my point).
>
No I donít. Maybe M9 might, but I suspect he and others think differently to you about it.
Why not just create a trad pro hanging belay at top of the first pitch?
Yes, hanging belays can be uncomfortable, but discomfort isnít enough reason to retro belays.
If the bolts are unsafe then replacing, not adding another belay to them is sensible, unless it can like in this example easily, be done with trad gear.
One Day Hero
16-Apr-2018
9:15:19 AM
On 13-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>I raised a point the other day with another climber (who's
>got the second ascent), that if drills were around in the early days, there
>would be a heap more bolts about. The "old yardstick" isn't going to hang
>around forever because I can't do anything about when I was born. I've
>only been climbing for around 6 years or something.

Chris, you don't know what you're talking about. Go to europe if you want to see the result of 30 years with no restraint on bolting and development. It's gross. Fuch climbing in europe. Whatever misguided ideas you have about climbing ethics now and in the past, you should recognise that the previous generations of Buffalo climbers left a relatively pristene crag for you to enjoy. Trashing a natural area is never a single conscious decision, it's death by a thousand cuts. What sort of Mt. Buffalo are you going to pass on to the next generation?

I'm not even specifically commenting on your new route, cause I haven't seen it. Your general attitude in this thread (which I accept could be a defensive reaction) sounds pretty fuching lame.

gordoste
16-Apr-2018
12:12:28 PM
On 16-Apr-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>I'm not even specifically commenting on your new route, cause I haven't
>seen it. Your general attitude in this thread (which I accept could be
>a defensive reaction) sounds pretty fuching lame.

Stop being a tool. The ethics are clearly that the FA decides on how to protect the route. He has followed those ethics scrupulously. Your attitude is the problem. If everybody was like you, the next generation would just reject the established ethics entirely - what's the point of following them if you're going to get criticized anyway?
mikllaw
16-Apr-2018
1:40:19 PM
He's made a route that is doable with a 'standard offwidth rack' (which goes up to about 9" these days) plus bolts. What would be unethical would be to make a set of custom tubes and 'seat' them with a large hammer, then remove them. Or do it on 12" cams that no-one else could access. Sounds like typical gravelly crack so tubes would be very marginal.

And it's even had a second ascent! How many offwidths manage that at Buffalo?
One Day Hero
16-Apr-2018
1:43:11 PM
On 16-Apr-2018 gordoste wrote:
>Stop being a tool. The ethics are clearly that the FA decides on how to
>protect the route.

Yeah, that's all changing due to ocd fuchwits bolting the shit out of everything. I don't have a problem with Chris bolting his chimney. I have a problem with some of the other stuff he wrote, which suggests mass retrobolting is on the cards.
One Day Hero
16-Apr-2018
2:16:53 PM
On 14-Apr-2018 Miguel75 wrote:
> My point is/was, many people
>have bypassed this climb due to lack of interest, skill or gear. Or maybe
>even plain old fear. Why hasn't anyone climbed it before?

Because it's a difficult climb in an unpleasant style on disgusting rock with no natural pro and rap-bolting cracks has been a huge ethical no-no since the 1970s.

>it's not going to be a trade route of any kind

You don't say. It'll maybe get another ascent or two while it's in the news, then less than one per decade for the rest of forever. Also, people will have to rap clean it prior to climbing, because the moss and leaf litter will return in a couple of years.

bigchris
16-Apr-2018
2:25:30 PM
On 16-Apr-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 16-Apr-2018 gordoste wrote:
>>Stop being a tool. The ethics are clearly that the FA decides on how
>to
>>protect the route.

And now you can climb it without Valley Giants. Go for it :D


>Yeah, that's all changing due to ocd fuchwits bolting the shit out of
>everything. I don't have a problem with Chris bolting his chimney. I have
>a problem with some of the other stuff he wrote, which suggests mass retrobolting
>is on the cards.


Not once have I suggested retro-bolting a climb. I've spoken a lot about replacing anchors and/or dodgy old bolts. Which I do at my cost (not a big deal) so that people are safe etc. I'm not sure if you've been to Boulder Canyon or Yose or Moab as of late, but the climber have all banded together as a community to replace old shit bolts. Chris Mac is one of the guys who has led this initiative.

As far as i'm aware (and please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong - which I know someone will anyway) replacing dodgy anchors is not retro-bolting. In the case of Country Road, I think that the anchor needs to be changed to some nice modern bolts. The issue is, that there is some old archeological bottle from the 1500's (not actually the 1500s - its probably from the 70's - just incase no-one understands my excellent humour) so i'd feel bad pulling the anchor and putting a new one in because it looks cool and old. The trad anchor in there would mean (and how I was when I did it), half hanging off of the slopey ledge and not being able to provide an appropriate belay as there is a huge chance that the climber falls off of the first move and lands straight on the anchor (it's a pretty out there move).

I'd also like to hear from you in regards to me 'retro-bolting everything in sight' and where i've said that. Perhaps you've gotten confused with my thinking - and just or the record - I don't and won't retro or rebolt anything with out the FA Teams permission.
I do find it appropriate to change an old crap anchor to a new one. I also don't think that anyone is going to complain about that (apart from on Country Road).

Surely the climbing community can surely find an appropriate solution.

Just as a side note - There are bolts all over the top of country road on the block, also on the other side of the gorge in numerous places from slacklines being set up. So while I try and do the right thing and tell people what i'd like to do or ask permission or whatever (for example on The Pinch - my drill went flat so I didn't replace them anyway), i'm the one that faces ridicule (which is no big deal) not the people that like Mike has said, just go and bolting during the night.

Cheers

bigchris
16-Apr-2018
3:18:57 PM
We must have been typing at the same time! I missed this one :D


On 16-Apr-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 14-Apr-2018 Miguel75 wrote:
>> My point is/was, many people
>>have bypassed this climb due to lack of interest, skill or gear. Or maybe
>>even plain old fear. Why hasn't anyone climbed it before?
>
>Because it's a difficult climb in an unpleasant style on disgusting rock
>with no natural pro and rap-bolting cracks has been a huge ethical no-no
>since the 1970s.


A clean cut, razor sharp, beautiful offwidth/chimney on orange Mt Buffalo gold, with totally amazing stacking, chicken winging, knee barring and heel-toe jamming while single-handedly destroying every piece of clothing and gear that you're wearing. It's clearly not your cup of tea, but it is mine and I'd have it no other way. In between the grunts and screams, it can be some of the most technical, beautiful and elegant climbing styles around. What's not to love!

>
>>it's not going to be a trade route of any kind
>
>You don't say. It'll maybe get another ascent or two while it's in the
>news, then less than one per decade for the rest of forever. Also, people
>will have to rap clean it prior to climbing, because the moss and leaf
>litter will return in a couple of years.

Considering that no one has been up it since the beginning of time, it wasn't really that dirty. I didn't even need a brush to clean it :D

Offwidth crack climbing is a thing. And you may hate or you may love it. But just because you think it's unpleasant won't stop people from throwing their carcasses in them and that's what it's all about.

bigchris
16-Apr-2018
3:47:25 PM

More replies....

On 16-Apr-2018 gordoste wrote:
>On 16-Apr-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>>I'm not even specifically commenting on your new route, cause I haven't
>>seen it. Your general attitude in this thread (which I accept could be
>>a defensive reaction) sounds pretty fuching lame.
>
>Stop being a tool. The ethics are clearly that the FA decides on how to
>protect the route. He has followed those ethics scrupulously. Your attitude
>is the problem. If everybody was like you, the next generation would just
>reject the established ethics entirely - what's the point of following
>them if you're going to get criticized anyway?

Firstly ODH, i'm sorry if i've upset you with my attitude. I really have tried to be open and honest about what i'm doing.

I am scrupulous in the planning with stuff like this. I try to follow along what others have done before me, and I realise in the scheme of things i'm a 'junior' climber.


On 16-Apr-2018 mikllaw wrote:
>He's made a route that is doable with a 'standard offwidth rack' (which
>goes up to about 9" these days) plus bolts.

That was the idea. So as many people could climb it, how they want to.

>What would be unethical would
>be to make a set of custom tubes and 'seat' them with a large hammer, then
>remove them. Or do it on 12" cams that no-one else could access. Sounds
>like typical gravelly crack so tubes would be very marginal.

I did it on bolts, i've done it on huge cams, i've done it on TR. I'm not doing it on tubes. It is nice and clean so they might work now, but i'm not interested anyway. Like Mikl says, now anyone can do it in whatever style they like.

>
>And it's even had a second ascent! How many offwidths manage that at Buffalo?

Yahhhhh!!!


One Day Hero
16-Apr-2018
7:01:39 PM
On 16-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>It's clearly not your cup of tea, but it
>is mine and I'd have it no other way. In between the grunts and screams,
>it can be some of the most technical, beautiful and elegant climbing styles
>around. What's not to love!

Heaps not my cup of tea. It's great to see people out there doing something other than gently overhanging sandstone sport routes though.

>Offwidth crack climbing is a thing. And you may hate or you may love it.
>But just because you think it's unpleasant won't stop people from throwing
>their carcasses in them and that's what it's all about.

I'll be cheering if it happens, but it almost certainly won't happen. Australians barely climb cracks which are nice, let alone toothy wide horrorshows. Here's a question. If nobody repeats your route for fifty years, the grunge grows back, and the bolts just sit there unclipped, would you still consider that bolting the climb was worthwhile? I ask myself the same question with routes I've bolted, btw.

bigchris
16-Apr-2018
8:28:06 PM
>Here's a question. If nobody repeats your route for fifty years, the grunge
>grows back, and the bolts just sit there unclipped, would you still consider
>that bolting the climb was worthwhile? I ask myself the same question with
>routes I've bolted, btw.

F**k yeah it was. Because I got to climb it.
One Day Hero
16-Apr-2018
10:06:48 PM
On 16-Apr-2018 bigchris wrote:
>F**k yeah it was. Because I got to climb it.

But you got to climb it anyway on toprope. Why is it that we don't respect a toprope as a valid first ascent? Yet anyone can rap the same line, place enough bolts to almost be on toprope the whole way, and ta da......new route. Rock climbing cultural norms make no sense once you add a top down approach and power drills.

Looking more broadly at route development (not putting your new route in this basket, btw) I think that bolted routes which obviously have no market value are nothing more than environmental vandalism. Everyone with a drill should be asking themselves the honest question "will anyone come out here and repeat this thing?"

There's a bunch of things which I've toproped, thought were pretty cool, ummed and ahhed a bit, then decided not to bolt. The piffling number of repeats they'd attract doesn't justify the bolts. Now what do I do if someone with lower standards comes along and bolts the shit out of one of those?


gordoste
17-Apr-2018
11:32:02 AM
There is an interesting point in there somewhere when you ask why topropes don't count. But you might as well ask why we don't just walk up to the top. It is unquestionably mentally harder to lead things. We are not really interested in doing it the easy way, but in doing it the Right way, and the first ascent is defined as leading from bottom to top.
uwhp510
17-Apr-2018
5:08:42 PM
On 17-Apr-2018 gordoste wrote:
>It is unquestionably mentally harder to lead things.

Not really. Climbing well bolted sport routes and top roping are functionally the same.

>We are not really
>interested in doing it the easy way, but in doing it the Right way, and
>the first ascent is defined as leading from bottom to top.

... after first walking to the top, and rap-bolting.

harold
17-Apr-2018
7:28:04 PM
+1 ODHís comment. I think top roping is underrated and at times not much different from sport climbing. Less convenient to set up, but quite enjoyable when you are on your own and leaves no trace. I donít think it should count for first ascent status, but then first ascent is a bit overrated at times. All styles have their pros and cons. I just enjoy climbing the rock and figuring out the moves.
PS not a comment on the route in question.

Jayford4321
19-Apr-2018
1:52:49 PM
M75 wrote:
>Not too long ago I was pulling bolts out of some egregiously bolted Buffalo climbs with other DCA agents and realise my stance on these bolts may be dichotomous though maybe I'm getting injured too often and need to feel safe. Or maybe I've been hit in the head too many times and can't remember exactly what it was I'm raging against.

This shred is now getting interesting.
Please elaborate.

 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60
There are 60 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Landscape Photos Australia

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | High Country Mountain Huts | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints