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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Grampians	Northern	Hollow Mountain & Surrounds	(General)	[ Grampians Guide \| Images ]

Author

Cave Cliff & The Sun Deck Development


nmonteith

29-Nov-2007
10:03:06 AM

On 28/11/2007 jgoding wrote:
>I was kindly reminded by a certain very experienced infamous climber today
>that if I should happen to have all of the old rock magazines, all of the
>old Arguses and every single guidebook ever published to the Grampians
>it should have been very apparent to me that these route names were already
>taken, and hence the confusion could have been avoided. That would assume
>that I could be bothered to read all of them and cross reference the lot.
>I would like to point out that this is simply unreasonable.

Hey Joe,

The simplest and most fool-proof method for checking that a route name has been taken is to use
www.thecrag.com

It has a name and grade database for almost every single route in the world (ok, at least in Oz, NZ,
USA, UK and most of Europe). You just type in the name and it lists every instance in the world. For
example... Gothum City.

Gotham City Crag [12 climbs; 0 photos Sierra Nevada Range]
Gotham City Crag [1 climbs; 1 photos British Columbia]
Gotham City [6a+, Hong Kong]
Gotham city [6a+, Hong Kong]
Gotham City (L1) [6c, 23 m Italy]
Gotham City (L2) [7c, 15 m Italy]
Gotham City [5.12!, Nevada]
Gotham City * [26, 20 m Bundaleer, Grampians]
Gotham City * [5.11d, Yosemite National Park

This is the only way I cross check my route names. My rule is if a route name has been taken already
in Victoria then i don't use the same name. If a popular or famous route exists with the same name in
the rest of Australia then don't use the same name.

jgoding

29-Nov-2007
5:05:06 PM

Good Man.

Fish Boy

7-Dec-2007
8:12:59 PM

Look forward to heading out and checking the Sun Deck out soon Joe...and a mission or two at Buff...it's Nick here, the hairy guy you were chatting to at araps a few days ago before you left.....

jgoding

12-Dec-2007
7:11:31 PM

Hey Nick,

nice to hear from you my man. I hope you enjoy this new area.

Nug Nug is calling your name also - what an amazing range of opportunities. I hope the pics of Nug Nug I sent you inspire rather than strike fear into your very core.

the call of the wild adventure and glory!

Come one, come all to a wonderful season @ Nug Nug (far north Mt Buffalo)
http://www.climb.org.au/index.php?page=27&area_id=790

kieranl

12-Dec-2007
7:31:50 PM

On 12/12/2007 jgoding wrote:
>I hope the pics of Nug Nug I sent you inspire rather than strike fear into
>your very core.
Isn't that the same thing?

Fish Boy

13-Dec-2007
9:52:48 AM

Loved the pics Joe...nothing inspires me as much as vast amount of granite...look forward to getting out there...

Nick

rpman

13-Dec-2007
1:30:01 PM

Hi tiger. Could you possibly send me a copy of the guide book as I cant find it. Thanks mate.

Timbo


simonu

13-Dec-2007
1:38:19 PM

Hey Timbo,
Might see you Sunday on your comeback tour:
Here are a couple of links to the guides:
http://www.climb.org.au/index.php?page=27&area_id=929
http://www.climb.org.au/index.php?page=27&area_id=926

Cheers,

Simon

rpman

13-Dec-2007
1:47:22 PM

Tyhanks mate. Good to hear from you.


swampy

6-Jan-2008
9:33:26 AM

I went climbing up in the area again last week. Nice shade in the hot weather after 1ish. Just wondering about the cave being used to camp in. Was it specifically asked to not be camped in? There are quite a few obvious bivvy sites which have been flattened out and 'would' be good sleep pads.

Also what grade is the climb with a line of bolts which goes out the right hand (as you look out) edge of the cave? 2 bolts are only about 20cm apart and look really ugly! It also looks as though the last 2 obviously viewed bolts are next to bomber cam placements.


nmonteith

6-Jan-2008
5:35:29 PM

On 6/01/2008 swampy wrote:
>Was it
>specifically asked to not be camped in?

Yes - by Parks Vic rangers directly a few months ago.

> There are quite a few obvious bivvy
>sites which have been flattened out and 'would' be good sleep pads.

These were created recently and were frowned apon by the rangers. Don't even think about it.

>Also what grade is the climb with a line of bolts which goes out the right
>hand (as you look out) edge of the cave? 2 bolts are only about 20cm apart
>and look really ugly! It also looks as though the last 2 obviously viewed
>bolts are next to bomber cam placements.

Its a project - probably grade 32+. It is so steep it was aided up to get the bolts in, thus the reason they are so close at the start.


dreamingof8a

30-Jan-2008
2:13:32 PM

Hey Joe,
just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed climbing at the Sun Deck and The Cave Cliff. Sun Gate is still to explore :-)
Last week I climbd at Sun Deck with an Italian guy Peter and it was prety cool, ticked all the routes from left to right in 2hrs despite millions of flies and the hot weather.

Just two suggestions/questions:
- grading of Holy Batmania/Poison Ivy/Comissioner Gordon: Unfortunately I can't exactly remember which two of these three routes but I found one of the 19s quite a bit harder than the 21. I was very surprised to look at the guide after having climbed both of them.

- anchors of Holy Human Fly/?Poison Ivy?: they are set above the edge of the last ledge - a rope killer! even lowering of really hurt my heart. We actually used the last bolt instead of the anchor. Is there a reason for the chain not being put below the edge? Maybe an extension chain would be a good Idea.

Apart from that, really good job!
Thanks

jgoding

30-Jan-2008
2:17:23 PM

Howdy,

glad to hear you enjoyed it.

Any grade suggestions (i.e. changes) we will consider & modify as required. I've just downgraded Holy Batmania from 19 to 18.

Sorry to hear your rope might have been rubbed up the wrong way on Holy Human Fly. I thought we
had got the length of the chain OK but I'm happy to replace it with longer stuff as it sounds like it might
be just a little short. I would suggest you abseil off (until the chain's replaced) rather than be lowered as this will cause a lot less stress to your rope. If you put draws on the rap chains I'm sure you can get lowered off OK.

Neil suggested popping an independent set of anchors in one of the routes at The Sun Gate
(The 23 up the middle - Conquistador) and that's on the cards FYI.

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE NAME OF THIS CLIFF (PREVIOUSLY "THE SUN DECK") HAS BEEN CHANGED TO "WAVE WALL". APOLOGIES FOR THE MIX UP BUT WE (NEIL MONTEITH AND I) BELIEVE THIS IS THE SAME CLIFF WRITTEN UP ON PAGE 89 OF THE BILL ANDREWS "NORTHERN GRAMPIANS" GUIDEBOOK. THE ROUTE "OVERBURDEN" IS YET TO BE LOCATED.
(extract from the guide):
Wave Wall: This route lies on the small orange wall which is most readily aproached by skirting the right hand edge of Cave Cliff. This avoids the strangler vine and scrub in the gully (Note there is now a good track which takes you around here by heading LEFT {as you face the cliff} from Cave cliff's main wall)

Overburden 15m 17
This is not a major attraction. Start at the white outcrop of rock at the base of the cliff half way along. Up the weakness veering right near top to easier ground, like the top. FA John Pawson, Wayne Maher 15.04.1989

kieranl

5-Feb-2008
9:01:45 PM

Just a piece of Grampians cliff trivia that I discovered while trawling through old guide updates etc trying to find stuff around the Olive Grove. There is another cliff in Gariwerd called The Sun Deck. It's on the east side of the Mt William Range just near Halls Gap. Details are in the SE Grampians Update part one that was included in Argus 2001.
However as the limited offerings are the products of those discerning explorers Campell Mercer and Stephen Hamilton it is unlikely to gain the popularity of it's northern namesake.
Are the two cliffs ever going to be confused? I am tempted to say "surely not" but someone is bound to turn up at the wrong cliff one day.

jgoding

6-Feb-2008
8:00:30 AM

Hi Kieran,

I tend to agree that there will be little risk of confusion. If there is a clear a consensus to leave this (the Northern Grampians cliff) as "The Sun Deck" then I'll change it back.

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? Should I leave it as "Wave Wall" (which we think was it's former name)?

I must say that the previous guide was very unclear about which wall was where, no overview maps etc. To be honest we're still just guessing a little that it's the same area.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Feb-2008
8:07:24 AM

There is a Wave Wall in WA?

... Nah, it's Wave Rock (near Hyden).
No confusion. Please proceed.


nmonteith

6-Feb-2008
1:39:18 PM

Wave Wall is a VERY popular sport crag at Shipley. Its a hard call - this new Grampians sport crag has been ultra-publicized as The Sun Deck - changing it this late could be very confusing? For the online guide I would write it up as Sun Deck / Wave Wall. That way no-one gets confused?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Feb-2008
1:44:24 PM

Despite the recent activity and advertising of same, if you look to the long term then it is still early days.
It may be appropriate to bite the bullet now and go for a complete name change?
... besides it must be easier to change an on-line guide than a published one!

... Also brings to mind the spin-off aspects when people choose to rename climbs in early days. It is not etched in stone until (the bolts are) published in hard copy!

~ besides, ... I have heard that BA has great patience!
Heh, heh, heh.


Rich

6-Feb-2008
2:24:39 PM

On 6/02/2008 nmonteith wrote:
>Wave Wall is a VERY popular sport crag at Shipley. Its a hard call - this
>new Grampians sport crag has been ultra-publicized as The Sun Deck - changing
>it this late could be very confusing? For the online guide I would write
>it up as Sun Deck / Wave Wall. That way no-one gets confused?

Just leave it as Sun Deck Joe, the other one's so obscure, no-one's gonna confuse it..

Also little correction, Wave Wall is at Centennial Glen, not Shipley.


nmonteith

6-Feb-2008
2:35:43 PM

Shipley Plateau is what i meant... :-)

There are 42 messages in this topic.