Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Buffalo	(General)	(General)	(General)	[ Mt Buffalo Guide \| Images ]

Author

Bolts at Buffalo


gordoste

12-Jan-2019
1:02:12 PM

On 12-Jan-2019 rb wrote:
> Trubolts can be cut off, the stud punched in, then glued over with rock dust. On textured granite they will be almost invisible after that.
>Hitting them with a hammer because you lack the knowledge of how to do a proper job just makes it harder.

From what I read in the original post, the holes weren't deep enough to punch them in.

dalai

12-Jan-2019
3:01:23 PM

Hole will be rarely deep enough to hammer in a trubolt without grinding the top off first.


gordoste

13-Jan-2019
11:14:37 AM

On 12-Jan-2019 dalai wrote:
>Hole will be rarely deep enough to hammer in a trubolt without grinding the top off first.

Gotcha. I think he intends to come back and do that so I still struggle to understand the objection to hammering the thread.

Anyway, thanks to the guiding companies for clarifying their lack of involvement.

After the Grampians situation is resolved, we should probably review the bolting approach at Buffalo. Especially if the lack of clarity contributed to this abomination.


JMK

13-Jan-2019
2:32:36 PM

Regarding pulling the bolts on Profanities- either pull them all, including anchors to restore back to the original or leave it as it is. If you selectively choose which bolts to pull you are just comfortising it to your own level. Someone else could choose as their comfort level fewer bolts than you or more bolts than you - it is just a personal choice then. I think if you pull any bolts you must pull them all including the anchors as these are then just comfort bolts. Clearly this is not my preferred choice. While I would not have put the bolts into profanities I did enjoy the nice longish moderate 1 pitch route that they allowed me to do. I would not have done it in its original form. Too bold and/or too much effort to leave an abseil rope with knots.

It has been probably 4 years or more since I last did the route but I do not recall any bolts directly next to a crack. There was that bit where you can go right to the end of P1 but you can stay directly on the arête I think. There was also a spot for a smallish cam in the bottom of the chossy flake but I think this may rip the flake? This is all on a fairly distant memory.

My comments are strictly related to the one route - more than happy for the general clean up you are doing.


bigchris

13-Jan-2019
9:04:45 PM

As its Geoffs route, I'm sure he'll chop whichever ones he sees fit.


MrsM10iswhereitsat.

14-Jan-2019
5:16:19 PM

On 13-Jan-2019 bigchris wrote:
>As its Geoffs route, I'm sure he'll chop whichever ones he sees fit.

In which case there will be none left Mr bigchris, as he led it back in the day when he couldn’t afford bolts or his hand drill had broken or something, as he used the knotted toprope sillyness instead.

Actually I’m pretty surprised he didn’t know about that retro earlier when the last lengthy conversation was had about it on Chockerstone years back as per Mr ajfclark link. Kind of a long time for indignation to build up?

Oh, and thank you for cleaning up the current excess bolts mess dearie.


JMK

15-Jan-2019
9:42:43 AM

So the use of a hanging rope with knots on a slab creates issues for me. Ie how many bolts does that translate to? I have used this method in the past for leading a route. Where the route was steep or vertical it is difficult to add knots on the way up as you are hanging on one handed. Not impossible but difficult. On a slab you can add a knot if the climbing suddenly feels too runout. Knowing the rope is there, that you can grab it in worst case scenario reduces the mental stress.

So I don’t know about the first ascent, this is just my experience. My main point is still that the route has now been climbed a lot in its current form . Some think the route runout but others think the opposite. So stripping bolts from the route now is to the comfort level of the person removing the bolts. This is difficult to measure against the starting point which was no bolts or an uncertain number of equivalent bolts. Just counting the original knots is not an accurate comparison.”


IdratherbeclimbingM9

15-Jan-2019
10:31:51 AM

On 14-Jan-2019 MrsM10iswhereitsat. wrote:
>(snip)
>Actually I’m pretty surprised he didn’t know about that retro earlier
>when the last lengthy conversation was had about it on Chockerstone years
>back as per Mr ajfclark link. Kind of a long time for indignation to build
>up?
>(snip)

He knew about the retro not that long after it had been done.
I happened to meet him at the Horn Lookout above it while we were (independently) climbing in the vicinity within a few months of the event, and discussed it at that time. The impression I got was that he already knew, and wasn’t that happy about it.

bendi

16-Jan-2019
5:41:01 AM

Firstly, I support removal of unnecessary and/or over bolting.

In regards to the slack line anchor, you said you smashed the thread?....I assume the bolts must have been threaded rod?

if threaded rod your best bet of removing them (or at least trying) would have been fix a nut to the rod, attach wrench with a extension and twist them out.

smashing bolts in a heated rage is not really a good idea as much as it may feel good at the time.


Macciza

16-Jan-2019
3:14:09 PM

Came to Buffalo to get away from bullshit Blueies bolting only to be confronted by equal and worse travesties ..
Like this one at the top of the North Wall ... A doubled double Ubolt anchor with a 30kN ring and 3 more rings to provide 'safe access' across minimally exposed terrain despite an equally safe minor scramble to get to the rigging point ...
Absolutely ridiculous !! Commercial operation on Army numb nuts ....
Any ideas or possible eexplanation for this 'setup'..??

IMG SRC = "https://scontent.fsyd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/50428340_10155672126646230_6138899277042155520_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd1-1.fna&oh=58b3317bfab06c2d4bce21210143bd40&oe=5CCD7724"


ajfclark

17-Jan-2019
6:01:30 AM

dan_b

17-Jan-2019
12:56:35 PM

Jesus that is ugly.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

17-Jan-2019
1:27:59 PM

On 16-Jan-2019 Macciza wrote:
>Came to Buffalo to get away from bullshit Blueies bolting only to be confronted by equal and worse travesties ..
>Like this one at the top of the North Wall ...

The block looks vaguely familiar but without going there again I’m having a hard time placing it due being stunned by the Ubolts.
Is this above She wall? ... or above Fuhrer?

>Army numb nuts

My guess is probably not, because the two bolts with fixed hangar captive rings that I saw on The Oval side above Crystal Brook, that l was informed by David Chitty as being army, are quite different hardware, and to their credit are very discreet.


Macciza

17-Jan-2019
4:16:11 PM

Hey matey. Well picked, above Fuhrer etc
Was down briefly checking out options on Il Duce/Mussolini...
Pretty horrendous, hey .. amazing what can be done with a drill, glue, metal and half a brain/clue ...

Hopefully someone down there can find out more and/or rectify...
Will be down again when some cooler weather arrives ..
Cheers


Macciza

17-Jan-2019
4:21:17 PM

Also a bunch of hardware on the original tourist route at the Horn ...
And some ridiculous lower offs? above Compulsion ...


IdratherbeclimbingM9

18-Jan-2019
12:02:57 PM

On 17-Jan-2019 Macciza wrote:
>Also a bunch of hardware on the original tourist route at the Horn ...

I don’t think PV would be pleased if their infrastructure gets chopped.
;-)

>And some ridiculous lower offs? above Compulsion ...

I may be wrong, but I think that’s been there since before the last Guidebook came out in 2006.


Macciza

18-Jan-2019
3:57:30 PM

Parks hardware?? Are they running tours up it? Or some commercial operators??

The Compulsion hardware hardly looks usable... Drag would be enormous trying to pull ropes...

Oh well. I have enough issues up here without worrying too much about stuff down there ...

Cheers

mattbrooks

23-Jan-2019
10:16:58 AM

I am not sure who put those big U bolts in Macca, but I do know they have been there since about 2014 as I was shown those by a instructor from Melbourne prior to running an Army activity up there. I only remember one pair though and him stating they had been replaced around that time. I know the Army used to use that 3 pitch abseil down the North Wall (has done for 20 plus years, they ran some activities while I was there but I was instructing in the water cell) and Commercial groups also use the same one the North Wall. I believe the ones lower down in the cave and the ledge below that were replaced around the same time (it was an old chain one trip and the next new bolts) if my memory serves me correctly.

One Day Hero

24-Jan-2019
9:33:23 AM

Why aren't more people on here condemning these bolts? 5 fat U bolts as an abseil anchor at a trad crag. Are people so fuched up with concern about not making waves that they can't call bullshit on this extreme case abomination?

If you don't speak up, idiots with drills will take that silence as approval. Then people like Macca and I are going to have to go chopping at established sport crags to reel this nonsense in.


E. Wells

24-Jan-2019
9:47:35 AM

Is there good trad gear or trees here or behind? If not , what precisely is the issue. I know it can be argued that trees feel and communicate via calcium signals and the like , but is the earths crust also such an animate entity? Do crystals have healing powers? Lastly , these u bolts are obviously used in some commercial way (that includes offence forces , as its an industry) and given that they are so brazen in placing so many , I would arseume that alot of people use them. So why cant someone just say 'oh yes , these were placed in ..... for the purpose of ..... and we would hope they werent chopped because ......' . Otherwise the anti bolt brigade should 'put up'.

There are 73 messages in this topic.