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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 29
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Grampians (General) (General) (General) [ Grampians Guide | Images ] 

Author
Weirs Creek access.

Antforknee
2-Oct-2018
12:37:45 AM
Hi all.
What's the current best access for weirs Creek? (open and legal) where do you park and what's the walk in like?
Thanks in advance.
kieranl
3-Oct-2018
5:04:04 AM
According to the latest Grampians National Park road report, Yanganaginj Njawi
Track (used to be called Emu's Foot) is closed. It has been closed for quite some time.

Matthews Track is seasonally closed until November.
kady
3-Oct-2018
9:58:56 PM
Emus foot track now has bollards installed next to the gate to stop people driving round it. The gate is also locked.

Matthews Track gate is locked and even when open the track gets quite sandy towards the weirs creek end and is probably not suitable for a 2WD.

Its about a 5km walk in from Red Rocks Road to Weirs Creek.

jkane
3-Oct-2018
10:58:47 PM
On 3-Oct-2018 kady wrote:

>Matthews Track gate is locked and even when open the track gets quite
>sandy towards the weirs creek end and is probably not suitable for a 2WD.

I would say definitely not suitable for a 2WD. Fairly long sections of deep soft sand. When open, you might be able to go cautiously and park just before the first sandy section to shorten the walk in but don't say you have not been warned.

antforknee
4-Oct-2018
3:33:55 AM
Thanks all.
Found the information on the locked gates later that night. Went to the mountain lion and had some fun on easy trad instead. Will look again in November when the gates open again.
Thanks for the advice on the deep sand. I will take it carefully.
kieranl
4-Oct-2018
5:05:58 AM
When Matthew Track is open it is usually navigable by 2WD by approaching from the eastern end. I'll dig out the access notes and add them to The Crag - I thought they were already up there but they are not. Walking approach from Matthew Track is 30 minutes though the taped route had pretty much disappeared when I was last there at Easter last year.
kieranl
4-Oct-2018
6:34:24 PM
Below is a snippet from an old thread about foot access to Weir's Creek. This requires the Glenelg River to be dry. Weir's could probably also be approached on foot in about the same time by walking about 2km east along Matthew Track from Syphon Road and then going off through the scrub towards Weir's. Wouldn't want to go too far alog Matthew Track here as Weir's turns into swamp soon after hitting the flat ground.

On 8-May-2014 kieranl wrote:

>However Weir's Creek can still be approached on foot in about
>50 minutes as long as the Glenelg River is not flowing, which it isn't
>at the moment.
>Park on Forest Lodge road at the gate on Hynes Track. Follow Hynes track
>south until it ends at the channel. Cross the channel and straight across
>the service track to the overgrown track running south-west. Follow this
>towards Emu's foot, dog-legging through the hopefully dry Glenelg River
>and on to meet Matthew track at the zig. Continue along this until it
>zags to the right. It's about 25 minutes to here. Now head cross-country
>towards the landslide to meet the old track just before Weir's Creek.
>
>
>
>The blue bit is the section shared with Matthew Track

antforknee
4-Oct-2018
8:32:03 PM
Thanks Kieran.
Much appreciated. Can I cut and paste your detailed directions into the crag?
kieranl
5-Oct-2018
2:07:50 AM
On 4-Oct-2018 antforknee wrote:
>Thanks Kieran.
>Much appreciated. Can I cut and paste your detailed directions into the
>crag?
I've already started updating approach details for the Eureka area cliffs on TheCrag. Feel free to copy any of my stuff though.
jacksonclimbs
6-Oct-2018
4:21:35 PM
Does anyone know why they want to keep that track closed?

Of all the tracks in the Grampians, why is this one an issue?
mitch46and2
6-Oct-2018
5:29:44 PM
Visited weirs creek on wednesday. There is a 4x4 track about 100-200m south from where the locked gate is,, the track goes southish into scrub then takes a sharp left which leads to a short rocky 4x4 descent, which turns into the emus foot track, we then drove rest of emus track to where the second locked gate is, i have a landcruiser so didnt worry but wouldnt be taking a subaru or the like down as it wont get back up.The emus foot track itself was in excellent condition, not sure why its shut.

JimmyS
6-Oct-2018
5:55:41 PM
I am only guessing here, but I assume it is quiet a prominent area for the traditional owners (re: old artwork site down at the end of the track - quite spooky seeing all the fenced off cliffs/paintings over grown by the scrub).

Also, might be "fake news", but I think I remember hearing about recent discoveries of artifacts of historical value in the area, near the road?
kieranl
6-Oct-2018
8:33:38 PM
My understanding is that the track is closed primarily because of cultural site sensitivity. There is more than one cultural site in this area. A look at the topography shows why it would have been prime real estate : a sheltered rocky hillside just above a swampy, narrow valley with a major river flowing through it.

Don't be under any illusion that taking a 4WD detour that avoids the gate somehow avoids the "Road Closed" status. This sort of sophistry really irks the people trying to manage the place.
Access T CliffCare
7-Oct-2018
5:36:01 AM
On 6-Oct-2018 kieranl wrote:
>My understanding is that the track is closed primarily because of cultural
>site sensitivity. There is more than one cultural site in this area. A
>look at the topography shows why it would have been prime real estate :
>a sheltered rocky hillside just above a swampy, narrow valley with a major
>river flowing through it.
Correct.
>Don't be under any illusion that taking a 4WD detour that avoids the gate
>somehow avoids the "Road Closed" status. This sort of sophistry really
>irks the people trying to manage the place.
Again correct. This isn't doing the climbing community any favours. Quite the opposite.


A snippet from the CliffCare website Victoria Range. This was from 2014 after the fires. Nothing has changed.

MARCH 2014
All cliffs in the Victoria Range are now open for climbing. There has been a change of access details for cliffs along the Emu Foot Track (Jawananji jawa). These include the climbing areas Eureka Wall, Lost World,Red Sail, Gondwanaland and Weirs Creek.The track is now a Management Vehicle only track which means you must park outside of the gate and walk to the cliffs.Due to climber feedback and discussions, PV are currently reassessing this decision to come to a better outcome for climbers. Please respect all current closures though
Also remember that while the Victoria Range cliffs may be open for climbing, many of them are still in a delicate state. Take care by keeping on established tracks. Organizing large groups to head into these areas is not advisable and will only promote further erosion. Over promoting the Vic Range is probably not the best course of action. Beside itís recent natural event, the Vic Range has the highest concentration of Indigenous sites in the Grampians and in Victoria. It is a delicate relationship we share with the land managers and the indigenous community. And it deserves respect. Itís all about common sense. A softer approach is the better long term option for the Victoria Range.

https://cliffcare.org.au/grampians/victoria-range/

As noted, the above access info was from 2014. The Victoria Range amongst other areas is still as sensitive as ever.



jacksonclimbs
7-Oct-2018
11:06:42 AM
Thanks for the detailed response.

Just for clarity - we're talking about the main gate that is right on Red Rock road correct? - not the second gate down that track that would just get you a bit closer to Weir's Creek - just to eliminate any confusion. I double checked the official road closure map and it looks like that entire track is closed.

The main gate on Red Rock Road has been open every time I've been down the Vic range in the last 18 months I've been living in Vic and visiting the Grampians. There would have been no need to go around the gate. For international climbers who pick up the guide book and drive down there - they would just drive right on in - not being aware that the road is closed - no signage etc. Expecting people to not drive down tracks when a gate is open and there is no signage to say it's not permitted, only PDFs published on PV web-sites etc. - that's optimistic. Some climbers are extra-conscientious, and will check on access issues prior to going to a crag, but many will just pick up the guide book and go - at many international crags I have been to, closures are clearly marked at the location.

If Matthew's track becomes the proxy track for these sites, it's just going to lead to more tracks running the 300-400m between that track and the Emu Foot Track - i.e. more impact, particularly until these tracks become well defined and climbers just walk uphill randomly. Seems counter-productive?
Access T CliffCare
7-Oct-2018
3:13:10 PM
On 7-Oct-2018 jacksonclimbs wrote:
>Thanks for the detailed response.
>
>Just for clarity - we're talking about the main gate that is right on
>Red Rock road correct? - not the second gate down that track that would
>just get you a bit closer to Weir's Creek - just to eliminate any confusion.
>I double checked the official road closure map and it looks like that entire
>track is closed.
>
>The main gate on Red Rock Road has been open every time I've been down
>the Vic range in the last 18 months I've been living in Vic and visiting
>the Grampians. There would have been no need to go around the gate. For
>international climbers who pick up the guide book and drive down there
>- they would just drive right on in - not being aware that the road is
>closed - no signage etc. Expecting people to not drive down tracks when
>a gate is open and there is no signage to say it's not permitted, only
>PDFs published on PV web-sites etc. - that's optimistic. Some climbers
>are extra-conscientious, and will check on access issues prior to going
>to a crag, but many will just pick up the guide book and go - at many international
>crags I have been to, closures are clearly marked at the location.
>
>If Matthew's track becomes the proxy track for these sites, it's just
>going to lead to more tracks running the 300-400m between that track and
>the Emu Foot Track - i.e. more impact, particularly until these tracks
>become well defined and climbers just walk uphill randomly. Seems counter-productive?

Hi Jackson,

Yes, talking about that gate but the whole track is closed to vehicle traffic. I would agree that signage and a closed gate would help inform some people. With regards to a gate being closed though, there have been numerous situations where people open the gate, so therefore it is open and people go through or if closed, they drive around it. Or as in the case noted above, access the track from a different location. I can't remember if there was signage there when it originally closed but again removal of signs has also been the case other times. From what I have been told though, a new gate and bollards are now in place.
There are certainly improvements in the way things could be done be it communications,education etc. This is from both sides.
This particular situation is a bit more complex than just the concern of land managers over whether more tracks will be created. And just a small part of a much bigger conversation what we will be needing to work through.
That TRACK is closed to vehicle traffic.For all reading, please respect the closures.
Access T CliffCare
7-Oct-2018
3:36:40 PM
On 6-Oct-2018 mitch46and2 wrote:
>Visited weirs creek on wednesday. There is a 4x4 track about 100-200m south
>from where the locked gate is,, the track goes southish into scrub then
>takes a sharp left which leads to a short rocky 4x4 descent, which turns
>into the emus foot track, we then drove rest of emus track to where the
>second locked gate is, i have a landcruiser so didnt worry but wouldnt
>be taking a subaru or the like down as it wont get back up.The emus foot
>track itself was in excellent condition, not sure why its shut.

The gate means the track is closed not just the entrance to it. I think the point to keep in mind is that it's about respecting the closure even if you may not know at that time the reason for the closure. I like to believe that giving the reasons for why things might be so helps people to make an informed decision. For some it helps, and for others it isn't always the case though. And sometimes, giving out specifics isn't something that is possible at that time for a variety of reasons. That track isn't closed because of it's condition. There are cultural heritage concerns.

antforknee
7-Oct-2018
9:30:57 PM
From what I saw on the way through both ends are gated and closed. We considered walking in and can see where people have avoided the gates to gain access. Bit silly considering there is so much in the vicinity which is open and easily accessible.
I think as climbers we need to remember that just because we can does not mean we should.
mitch46and2
7-Oct-2018
10:00:15 PM
Perhaps parks ahould make some effort towards education. A closed gate could mean anything. How is anybody meant to be aware?? No signage, no paper on the gate with a note, nothing. Oh, its been posted on that chockstone forum that no one has looked at for 10 years

ajfclark
7-Oct-2018
10:15:47 PM
On 7-Oct-2018 mitch46and2 wrote:
>Perhaps parks ahould make some effort towards education. A closed gate
>could mean anything. How is anybody meant to be aware?? No signage, no
>paper on the gate with a note, nothing. Oh, its been posted on that chockstone
>forum that no one has looked at for 10 years

The emu foot track closure has been on chockstone, cliffcare, the crag, I'm pretty sure it's in the most recent guidebook for Grampians and it was in the update PDF too. Park's road report lists it as closed.

CliffCare: http://cliffcare.org.au/grampians/victoria-range/
TheCrag: http://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/grampians/eureka-area
Grampians Guide Updates: http://docs.google.com/document/d/1eaxJkrwJhzAwZP67ue2ZP9ps4ufeEPPI5c2vYc0IKvw/edit
Parks: http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/679605/Grampians_Road_Report.pdf

What more do you want? A TV campaign?

Signs on the gate itself would be the most obvious, cheap, simple solution, but unfortunately, signs on gates seem to go walkabout for some reason, much like locked gates seem to end up magically unlocked, bypassed, smashed, etc. Another good example is the gate at the start of the Ravine track.

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