On 11/07/2017 Wendy wrote:
>Anyway, he was asking about araps, not hard sport routes
I thought the original question was about holds on sport routes in the Gramps? This is getting confusing.
>i still have a swag of 25ish ones in relatively recent history,
>i'm not dropping into the teens!
You do gr 27 and 28 funky trenches. At the Point (fair bit of crimp and pull) I didn't see you on anything harder than 22 (and even 22 involved substantial whinging).
>my argument is not about people focusing on that one soft tick, it
>is about actually becoming a better climber.
I don't think people want to be better climbers, they want soft ticks on daytrips and short weekends. I reckon (it's probably been thunk a thousand times before) that you can sort of remain good as a weekend climber, but you can never get good. Getting good needs months at the crag. You can get strong though, and unfortunately for the purists, strong trumps good on lots of routes.
>Unless i was super tall any skinny, in which case, the vertical
>face would probably be easier still.
Exactly! You don't really need body tension to climb most vertical face things. Just be tall, and be able to pull with fingers and push with toes on mingers. How floppy are people if they can't pull down and reach on vertical blueys stuff without body-waving off the wall?
Finger boarding is good. It should be treated as strength training. It should focus primarily on tendon strengthening but muscle development as well. For a weekend warrior they mean the finger, hand, forearm complex get exercised outside of weekends. It also means actual intense finger training happens which depending what you climb at the crag does not always happen and impeeds improvement. As for grips, I think this is a poor term. Most exercises can be done on a simple edge. Training all fingers or including 1 and 2 finger hangs or at least incorporating a few hangs can really help you from injury if confronted, even on thin cracks. other than that the only other thionk would be actually grip strength which a finger board is not the tool.
Other training is good to. But it is generally muscular, finger strength comes slowly and needs to be maintained.
Hows the land of beers, steers and queers these days. Did you meet any of the Bush family?
On 11/07/2017 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 11/07/2017 Wendy wrote:
>>Anyway, he was asking about araps, not hard sport routes
>I thought the original question was about holds on sport routes in the
>Gramps? This is getting confusing.
Says Gramps/araps. I will give you that these are somewhat different things. But then again, you can find plenty of different things without leaving either location. No grade was specified, but I am giving my usual opinion based on what the average climber climbs (about 18) and misdirected focus on actually climbing better (climb better not climb stronger. Most climbers who are thinking about training are already plenty strong enough to climb well into the 20s).
>>i still have a swag of 25ish ones in relatively recent history,
>>i'm not dropping into the teens!
>You do gr 27 and 28 funky trenches. At the Point (fair bit of crimp and
>pull) I didn't see you on anything harder than 22 (and even 22 involved
I whinge on 19s at the point! The top few metres of all the face routes become reachy nonsense. Nothing to do with my finger strength, I'm just a grumbly shortarse.
>>my argument is not about people focusing on that one soft tick, it
>>is about actually becoming a better climber.
>I don't think people want to be better climbers, they want soft ticks
>on daytrips and short weekends. I reckon (it's probably been thunk a thousand
>times before) that you can sort of remain good as a weekend climber, but
>you can never get good. Getting good needs months at the crag. You can
>get strong though, and unfortunately for the purists, strong trumps good
>on lots of routes.
Well, they're never going to have a chance of getting good if they focus on strength training and a singe route. I have this theory that if you can onsight trad 18 you can climb lots of good stuff but if you can onsight trad 22, you can really climb enough good stuff to keep you entertained for life. From that level, it's also perfectly achievable to redpoint 25. That's not an unrealistic expectation even for those poor unfortunates choosing to live in cities and have full time jobs. But you know that work on your weaknesses theory of training? Greatest gains come from improving the greatest weaknesses? I don't believe strength is most climbers' weakness. It's just the thing everyone thinks to train because it's easy and convenient. When it actually does become your limiting factor (and I can think of a whole 1 climber who probably would benefit from some strength training), then work on strength.
It's also a really easy way to injure yourself. I declined to participate in the fingerboarding and bouldering training regimes of some friends over the autumn. Both of them now have finger injuries. If I'm going to injure myself, i'd rather do it climbing than training.
>>Unless i was super tall any skinny, in which case, the vertical
>>face would probably be easier still.
>Exactly! You don't really need body tension to climb most vertical face
>things. Just be tall, and be able to pull with fingers and push with toes
>on mingers. How floppy are people if they can't pull down and reach on
>vertical blueys stuff without body-waving off the wall?
Ok, so the training regime should really be diet and the rack? You make vertical face climbing sound even more boring than slabs.
TBH I thought it would be a relatively quick question with two or three responses, but this is an interesting discussion either way.
As I said earlier, each to their own. If people want to tick soft sport routes on day trips and spray about it to their friends, what does it matter? If they enjoy that, good for them. So long as they arenít machine gun bolting trad lines, the various facets of climbing can co-exist.
On training, Wendy Ė I pretty much agree with you for the most part re: weaknesses core and just getting out on real rock, although I think that for the ambitious weekend-warrior sport climber like myself, finger strength needs to be built and maintained over time. In my experience, Iíve found what WWAS mentioned, that it can be hard to maintain it, and build it, through only climbing.
WWAS Ė I didnít have the pleasure of meeting the Bush family but I really enjoyed Texas. Itís quite a diverse place despite its reputation. Itís cheap living and everything really is bigger Ė Iím having trouble adjusting to living in this shoebox townhouse in Melbourne that is apparently worth the same as an equally located 5 bedroom house with a swimming pool in Houston.
On 12/07/2017 jacksonclimbs wrote:
>Iím having trouble adjusting
>to living in this shoebox townhouse in Melbourne that is apparently worth
>the same as an equally located 5 bedroom house with a swimming pool in
Welcome to that party. A friend is complaining about similar things in Auckland.
I am, I admit, ageing rapidly. Attacking a range of stuff at Arapiles rather than (in the words of the Mentz/Tempest guide) "prancing around on face climbs" is very attractive. The finger tendons are certainly not holding up to the youngster's regime of crimpy shit, and my friends on training regimes are injured too. The jamming is improving, and lots of sweary fun..
Let's face it, even if you are the average onsights-18 climber like me, prancing around on face climbs is boring. Wendy I like the cut of your shortass jib. Training, um, no, just climb.