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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Arapiles	Pilot Error Cliffs	(General)	Pilor Error Wall	[ Arapiles Guide \| Arapiles Images ]

Author

Pilot Error Bolt


Eduardo Slabofvic

20-Nov-2015
3:56:55 PM

The easy way to resolve these bolting discussions would be to rename this web site "Boltstone"


trog

21-Nov-2015
7:56:20 AM

On 20/11/2015 ambyeok wrote:
>Who are you?

According to thecrag.com he is:

Macciza a.k.a. Macca
...
Style: Sport climber
...

:)


Macciza

21-Nov-2015
12:08:41 PM

Hm, I think that is actually generated by the site itself based on recorded routes etc Not really accurate , , , Maybe 'Upper Spurt Climber' . . .
I prefer the About me section :

Old-schooled climber who still gives many a young'uns a run for their money on the sharp end . . .
Still keepin' it real after all these years . ..

simey

24-Nov-2015
10:18:46 AM

Going back to the original post...

On 12/11/2015 potex wrote:
>I was on Pilot Error at Arapiles last week and the bolt out on the roof
>is definitely dodgy and in need of replacing. As many would know its a
>fixed hanger in the roof with the shaft of the bolt pointing to the ground
>in the same direction as the force of the pull. It has worked its way
>out maybe 8-10mm and the hanger is jingling loose.

I'm not so sure that the bolt has worked its way out slightly, I just think it was poorly placed to begin with. I always recall the bolt sticking out a bit and the hanger spinning. My main concern was that it wasn't directly up into the roof but at an angle into a shallow flake of rock.

>If the bolt fails then someone is looking at a ground fall for sure.
>I was thinking of replacing the bolt so have a few questions first.

Great that you have the inclination to do this. And it sounds like you have some practical skills. To be totally honest, I wouldn't be fussed if you left the original bolt and simply placed a much better bolt in better rock nearby. Whilst I am usually a fan of removing bolts and re-using the hole where you can, I don't think the original placement was the best choice. I also don't think the type of bolt used up there will actually come out easily (I'm pretty sure it is not a sleeve/nut type), therefore you could make more of a mess trying to remove it.

Given that Pilot Error is a novelty route without a great legacy of tradition and boldness worth preserving, then I don't see much wrong with having two bolts protecting a crux move given the ground is in close proximity.

>What is the preferred hardware to replace it with these days?

I'm not an expert on this. In a lot of cases expansion bolts work great at Arapiles but make sure you use a roof hanger, not a conventional hanger. I suspect a glue-in bolt would be the best, but I've never placed glue-ins.

>Is it best to pull the bolt, fill the hole with epoxy mixed with rock
>dust and then place a new glued in bolt?

This is a good solution if you remove the bolt and don't plan to re-use the hole.

>cheers
>-Ben

Will look forward to seeing your handiwork should you do the job. Hope it goes smoothly. There is nothing more frustrating than stuffing up a bolt placement, particularly when it is Arapiles rock and on a popular route.

Dave_S

24-Mar-2016
8:35:20 AM

So did anything ever come of this? I'm headed to Arapiles over Easter, and if the dodgy old bolt is still there, I'd be inclined to replace it with what would most likely be a camouflaged, glue-in stainless ring bolt. I'll re-use the old bolt hole if I can get the bolt out, and if I think its positioning is good, or drill a new placement otherwise. Any objections?

The alternative (assuming a replacement bolt is to be placed) would be a glue-in M12 stainless threaded rod with a hanger. This may be preferable for those who despise rings, but in my opinion is inferior for this placement, as the nut can loosen (especially given how many people would be swinging on it), which allows the hanger to move, which results in the threads being damaged by the hanger, which means you can't properly tighten it any more. It's also more visually obtrusive than a camouflaged ring. Pretty much the only advantage is that it's easier to chop if the need ever arises.

kieranl

24-Mar-2016
8:44:58 AM

That would be great. Definitely a ring-bolt in that spot, not a hanger.

Pommy

24-Mar-2016
9:38:36 AM

So is that the hanger with "Made in the USSR" on it?
I'm glad Shai-Hulud got a mention too

argos44

24-Mar-2016
10:18:49 AM

Defintely a glue in ring. Can we make sure epoxy is used and not polyester.

Dave_S

24-Mar-2016
10:32:07 AM

Not to worry, the adhesive will be Hilti. None of this Ramset 101 polyester nonsense! :-)


Macciza

24-Mar-2016
12:11:38 PM

My vote would be for a hangerless glue in bolt, byo hanger, simple, effective and Australian!


shortman

24-Mar-2016
12:51:38 PM

On 24/03/2016 Macciza wrote:
>My vote would be for a hangerless glue in bolt, byo hanger, simple, effective
>and Australian!

Na, it's on a shitty little roof...

kieranl

24-Mar-2016
12:53:07 PM

On 24/03/2016 Macciza wrote:
>My vote would be for a hangerless glue in bolt, byo hanger, simple, effective
>and Australian!
and someone will have the hanger fall off in mid-crux. Wrong bolt for this climb.

Wendy

24-Mar-2016
4:33:52 PM

I'm guessing it's still the old bolt. Adam and I offered to help the guy replace it but he never got back to us and we were too busy bolting our own routes to go do it by ourselves. Go the glue in ring. And thanks for doing the job.

ademmert

29-Mar-2016
9:28:20 AM

An off-set glue in U-bolt would be best,
I have one that can be used if anyone is going out to do it

Dave_S

31-Mar-2016
3:37:44 PM

It is done. The old bolt was some kind of nail-drive expansion. It actually didn't look too bad, and the hanger may have merely been loose due to the nature of this bolt design not allowing the bolt to be tightened onto the hanger. There was maybe 5mm of axial movement in the hanger. I had a go at removing it, but couldn't get it out, as the spanners I'd brought (in expectation of a dynabolt) weren't of any use, and I didn't have a grinder with me. I did manage to work it out an additional 5mm, so it's now looser than ever and should probably be chopped. I've covered the old hanger in tape to discourage people from clipping it. (It'd be fine to clip in addition to the new bolt, but I wouldn't want people seeing two bolts and randomly clipping one and not the other.)


Drake

1-Apr-2016
12:59:32 PM

Nice. I particularly like how you smeared it with baby poo.


gordoste

4-Apr-2016
11:57:52 AM

Great job.


nmonteith

4-Apr-2016
10:00:29 PM

Now someone will complain that the new bolt already looks rusty. Good job BTW! Not sure why it took the locals so long to replace one bolt...

simey

5-Apr-2016
1:50:17 PM

On 4/04/2016 nmonteith wrote:
>BTW! Not sure why it took the locals so long to replace one bolt...

That's because they were busy bolting crappy routes on Garden Wall.

Wendy

5-Apr-2016
2:10:24 PM

On 5/04/2016 simey wrote:
>On 4/04/2016 nmonteith wrote:
>>BTW! Not sure why it took the locals so long to replace one bolt...
>
>That's because they were busy bolting crappy routes on Garden Wall.

What was your excuse then, he who has not even been there yet? oh yeah, too busy injuring yourself with football and trailrunning

You know, i don't even like Pilot Error ...
>

There are 86 messages in this topic.