Crag & Route Beta

Author	Pilot Error Bolt
sliamese 18-Nov-2015 11:53:46 AM	On 14/11/2015 argos44 wrote: >Surely any bolts replaced at Arapiles should be of the highest standard. >EN959 spec 316SS Ringbolt with Epoxy and it probably will never need replacing >again Even doing the best job possible, it WILL need to be replaced at some time in the future. Its just how long, 10 years or 30 years. If the sleeve is sticking out, you can use the hanger to cam and latch on to the sleeve for easy extraction. You can see why using a two-piece sleeve or tru-bolts at popular crags is never a good option!
Macciza 18-Nov-2015 11:55:01 AM	So, is this bolt original from when the climb was first done back in 1980?? If so, it seems to have lasted a good 35 years without issue so why not just replace with same or in stainless and it will be good for another 35 - 50 yrs.... If a rung or U gets put in can it be painted 'pink' .... MM .
kieranl 18-Nov-2015 12:53:24 PM	On 18/11/2015 Macciza wrote: >So, is this bolt original from when the climb was first done back in 1980?? >If so, it seems to have lasted a good 35 years without issue so why not >just replace with same or in stainless and it will be good for another >35 - 50 yrs.... >If a rung or U gets put in can it be painted 'pink' .... >MM > . No. Originally there was a peg which got replaced once or twice I think. So the bolt's not original, hasn't been in for any geological time period and replacing it with the same would be dumb. It's an unreasonably popular, crappy little climb - it just needs the bolt replaced with something decent and we can all get on with our lives. (post-edit : if I remember rightly the peg placement broke off so please don't bother suggesting that the peg should go back in!!!)
shortman 18-Nov-2015 1:08:52 PM	On 18/11/2015 kieranl wrote: >It's an unreasonably popular, crappy little climb.... Yep, so nuffies like me can tick a grade 20, :)
Macciza 18-Nov-2015 1:29:10 PM	Well then perhs given that history and the fact that it is Arapiles after all, we should pull the bolt and leave it as a a pure trad climb and then only those who should get on it will get on it ... If you put a ring or U in then increasing numbers of incompetents will get on it and likely more accidents will occur due to bad practice like in that video .... It's Araps, we should be pulling bolts where possible ....
Jayford4321 18-Nov-2015 1:41:28 PM	On 18/11/2015 Macciza wrote: >Well then perhs given that history and the fact that it is Arapiles after >all, we should pull the bolt and leave it as a a pure trad climb and then >only those who should get on it will get on it ... If you put a ring or >U in then increasing numbers of incompetents will get on it and likely >more accidents will occur due to bad practice like in that video .... >It's Araps, we should be pulling bolts where possible .... Numpties will always be numps an vids only show how many R out there that we dint about. Ur logic means same as Its doggie, we should be sand mining there when possible?
sliamese 18-Nov-2015 4:37:58 PM	Hmmm i dont think the type of bolt placed will effect the number on it. Let the incompetents have a go, if they hurt themselves well then thats the game you play. Climbing is an adult sport that you choose to take the (small) risk to participate in. Bumblies gonna bumbly so let em have at it, on a good bolt... everybody is a bumbly at their own grade and we're all incompetent (compared to Tommy Caldwell...)
Jayford4321 18-Nov-2015 5:11:32 PM	On 18/11/2015 sliamese wrote: >everybody is a bumbly at their own grade and we're all incompetent (compared >to Tommy Caldwell...) Hmmm bak at ya, cos I've still got all my fingers.
Macciza 19-Nov-2015 3:16:26 AM	On 18/11/2015 sliamese wrote: >Hmmm i dont think the type of bolt placed will effect the number on it. Maybe not but I reckon a ring would get it more ascent then a glueing carrot but pretty sure if it was removed completely it would get far less . . .
Wendy 19-Nov-2015 8:02:26 AM	On 19/11/2015 Macciza wrote: >On 18/11/2015 sliamese wrote: >>Hmmm i dont think the type of bolt placed will effect the number on it. > >Maybe not but I reckon a ring would get it more ascent then a glueing >carrot but pretty sure if it was removed completely it would get far less >. . . > Macca, I think you should probably avoid ever visiting Araps again because it will devestate your sense of tradition. For the most part, the climbing population of Araps has accepted that modern fixed gear is a fabulous thing and manky old pitons and flaccid carrots have been being replaced by stainless rings and FHs for at least 15 years now. I'm with Kieran that PE is a overrated mini route, but it does get a lot of attention, it has always had a piece of fixed gear of some sort (and yes, it was strangly popular with a manky piton in it as well. Even after the first piton broke and someone hit the deck) and why should it become a poorly protected route now when the 1st ascentionist had a shiny new piton that presumably made all the right pings when it went in? The guidebook says it has a bolt in it, people will head up there expecting to find a bolt in it and some person with more enthusiasm than caution will probably flail on out to the lip thinking the bolt must be out there and promptly crater. I cringe and run from a lot of poor practices and lack of judgement at the Mt. They are certainly not exclusive to things with a bolt in them.
The good Dr 19-Nov-2015 8:27:07 AM	On 19/11/2015 Macciza wrote: >On 18/11/2015 sliamese wrote: >>Hmmm i dont think the type of bolt placed will effect the number on it. > >Maybe not but I reckon a ring would get it more ascent then a glueing >carrot but pretty sure if it was removed completely it would get far less >. . . Ever the genius ... a carrot vertically in a roof. Even you should know that the hangers are not designed to be loaded in a fall pulling straight out. They have a habit of unfolding on the edges.where they slip over the head. hatred of rings should not lead to intentional creation of dangerous fixed protection. Back to bumbly school for you.
gordoste 19-Nov-2015 8:52:29 AM	On 18/11/2015 gnaguts wrote: >On 18/11/2015 sliamese wrote: >>everybody is a bumbly at their own grade and we're all incompetent (compared >>to Tommy Caldwell...) > >Hmmm bak at ya, cos I've still got all my fingers. He must be a DIY bumbly :)
ajfclark 19-Nov-2015 9:41:59 AM	Didn't he lose that in a carpentry incident? Bumbly carpenter != bumbly climber. [edit: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11337868/Worlds-best-climber-only-has-nine-fingers-the-life-and-times-of-Tommy-Caldwell.html While using a table saw during a renovation of his home in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado he slipped and chopped off the index finger on his left hand above the knuckle.
Macciza 19-Nov-2015 1:46:24 PM	Gluein carrot with fixed hanger - replace like with like ... Adds a bit more commitment and avoid wear from incomps lowering off ring or U bolt... Ill just climb it properly regardless - I'm sure I could meet the challenge . . .
johnpitcairn 19-Nov-2015 1:54:02 PM	Get an angle grinder, grind off the bolt, then grind a wee slot at the lip that can only be protected by a #1 ballnut. Sorted.
stugang 19-Nov-2015 2:52:41 PM	I agree with Macca. Tradition needs to be respected otherwise we are nothing more than animals fighting over the carcass of a slaughtered beast. I recommend replacing the peg with a pre rusted one that was removed after a retro bolt of some piece of choss on dogface. AND replacing the bolt with three carrots none of which a hanger fits over (unless you have customised and prefiled them). Finally the very old HUGE jug on the lip should be reconstructed by 3D printing using kc's or claws old happy snaps and replaced so all those young stooges like Wendy and kmonster can appreciate the merits of a milkshake on the lip after a long hot hard day in the tent. Damn those good old days were good.
kieranl 19-Nov-2015 3:12:13 PM	To be really consistent with tradition I should just go up, extract the bolt, wrap a bit of sports tape around it and whack it back in. It'll be just like the good old days.
stugang 19-Nov-2015 3:39:20 PM	Yeh. That too.
One Day Hero 19-Nov-2015 5:23:42 PM	On 17/11/2015 martym wrote: >The insinuation was that he was happy there was a bolt that saved him >from a grounder, I assume? I guess he would have been happier still if >there was another bolt at the lip, perhaps if it was grid bolted? You're thinking of someone else, I'm the bloke who chops fuchin retrobolts! I don't even remember what it is that annoyed me about your post now.........probably the double play of suggesting that anyone who falls off on lead is rash and dangerous, combined with the moronic cult of the soft catch (so worried about keeping the leader from slapping the wall that allowing them to crater into the deck is preferred!?!?) But really, the dudes in the video are most likely total goobertrons. Getting stuck into you for judging them was hypocritical of me.
Macciza 19-Nov-2015 5:33:12 PM	Yeah, you guys are right, lets just replace every thing with ringbolts, even fixed trad placements, in fact why stop there, lets put a bolt next to every possible gear placement after all "you don't have to clip them" . . . And really for crux bolts like this one on PE there really should be two, so that its backed up . . . Araps will be so much better once we give up on tradition and get modern . . . Just think how many people would be able to get on Mr Natural if it had a line of closely spaced rings on it, and surely someone could put a proper (i.e. gym) hold onto Punks . . . Can we at least paint them all pink??

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