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General Climbing Discussion

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dodgy retailers

adrian

7-Sep-2009
10:37:46 AM

On 7/09/2009 Guniea Sauras Rex wrote:
>This doesn't always happen though - even if you have great self confidence
>it is difficult to resist a sales person using the pressure tactic, especially
>after the sales person has developed 'report' with you.
>

Sure you didn't mean 'rapport' instead of 'report'?

:)


anthonyk

7-Sep-2009
10:49:48 AM

On 7/09/2009 salty crag wrote:
>ps. If your unsure of purchase don't buy, take time out to think about
>it.

yeah for sure. i normally have a well functioning bullshit-detector, but sometimes when its an effort to come back another time when there's more stock its easier just to take someones word for it.


ambyeok

7-Sep-2009
11:25:58 AM

On 7/09/2009 ambyeok wrote:
>"cash discounts for each pull-up. each successive pull-up - $1 males /
>$2 females discount on any rock shoe in stock in addition to exsiting discount*"

p.s. That post (and picture) was from an email I received back from M.E. They said "Thanks for the link and heads up the other day…", perhaps we will hear from them.

Winston Smith

7-Sep-2009
5:51:26 PM

I amazed how one dumb bumbly can cause so much shit to be slung at a fine outdoor shop - one of the few in Sydney to actually employ climbers.

Said bumbly f---ed up and blames everyone else but himself...

Grow up.

One Day Hero

7-Sep-2009
6:01:39 PM

On 7/09/2009 Winston Smith wrote:
>I amazed how one dumb bumbly can cause so much shit to be slung at a fine
>outdoor shop - one of the few in Sydney to actually employ climbers.
>
>Said bumbly f---ed up and blames everyone else but himself...
>
>Grow up.
>
This is pretty harsh! Don't forget that retailers in Australia engage in anti competitive, sole importer agreements with manufactures in order to maintain artificially high prices. In this context, I feel absolutely no guilt when I use them as tryout stalls for my overseas gear purchases.
When judging the service provided at aussie gear shops, compare with MEC in Canada who offer mega low prices, amazing range and THE most kickarse exchange/refund policy anywhere. If the person who started this thread had the same sales experience occur at MEC, they would have the shoes taken back for a size exchange at the drop of a hat!


skink

7-Sep-2009
6:42:59 PM

On 7/09/2009 Winston Smith wrote:
>I amazed how one dumb bumbly can cause so much shit to be slung at a fine
>outdoor shop - one of the few in Sydney to actually employ climbers.
>
>Said bumbly f---ed up and blames everyone else but himself...
>
>Grow up.
>

You refer to someone who you appear not to know, and who has gone to some trouble to try and be fair in his criticism, as a 'dumb bumbly' who 'f--ked up', and then state he should 'Grow up'... nice.


anthonyk

7-Sep-2009
7:15:41 PM

On 7/09/2009 Winston Smith wrote:
>I amazed how one dumb bumbly can cause so much shit to be slung at a fine
>outdoor shop - one of the few in Sydney to actually employ climbers.

do you want to tell me what exactly makes a shop "fine"?

>Grow up.

all class

Winston Smith

7-Sep-2009
8:52:21 PM

On 7/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:

>do you want to tell me what exactly makes a shop "fine"?

When you tell me how your behaviour makes the shop "dodgy".


anthonyk

7-Sep-2009
9:02:22 PM

On 7/09/2009 Winston Smith wrote:
>On 7/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>
>>do you want to tell me what exactly makes a shop "fine"?
>
>When you tell me how your behaviour makes the shop "dodgy".

read the first two posts i put on the first page... and any of the other ones in the thread as well if you like

your turn


ecowain

8-Sep-2009
8:55:21 PM

Didn't you used to have a pair of Katanas ages ago? What was your size then, vs the ones you bought now?


anthonyk

8-Sep-2009
9:37:50 PM

On 8/09/2009 ecowain wrote:
>Didn't you used to have a pair of Katanas ages ago? What was your size
>then, vs the ones you bought now?

they changed the lasts or something, it turned out the same number shoes were way off in sizing, either a half or a whole size

Mike Bee

8-Sep-2009
10:34:13 PM

On 7/09/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
>This is pretty harsh! Don't forget that retailers in Australia engage
>in anti competitive, sole importer agreements with manufactures in order
>to maintain artificially high prices.

So misinformed that it's not funny. Get a clue before you post more crap and look even sillier.

Australian retailers buy their gear from the official Australian distributors. They do this for heaps of reasons, such as getting the back up of warranty without the hassles of dealing with an overseas distributor, having good customer service with a supplier who understands the local market, being able to purchase in AUD at constant rates (safer from exchange rate fluctuations) and also because it's what the manufacturers themselves want to happen.

For example, Sea to Summit sell Black Diamond in Australia, not because they asked for it, but because BD sought them out and asked S2S if they'd like to become the Australian distributor. This happened because S2S had a great reputation for customer service, being run by outdoors people, and because by going to S2S, BD would get more market penetration than they could when Paddy Pallin were the importer. This has worked out well, as now most shops can sell BD gear, BD get more sales, and their brand is represented by a supplier who are renowned for having some of the best customer service in the business.
If you have complaints about the price of gear in Oz, the other two parties in the process need as much, if not more attention, namely, the manufacturer and the distributor. After all, these are the guys who set the prices.

Gear costs more over here because there is an importer who has to make a cut too.
In the states, the gear goes from manufacturer -> freight company -> retailer
In Oz, the gear goes from manufactuer -> freight company -> aussie distributor -> freight company -> retailer.
There are more steps in the Aussie supply chain, and each step costs money. Mark up from wholesale to retail isn't done on an absolute $$ value, it's done as a %, so if the base is higher to begin with (as it is because it has an extra business trying to make a cut), you end up with a disproportionately high RRP.

I'm not saying gear isn't expensive in Australia, because it is, but blaming it on retailers is absolutely crap, as they can only buy from the suppliers who can supply them. Abusing their service and their investment in floor space and stock holding and attempting to justify it as you have done, is a weak argument that holds no water and is nothing except an excuse to try and justify being a stingy bastard. It's people like you who will eventually make it impossible to run a good climbing shop in Australia because of low turn over, high stock holdings, and high staffing costs.


GravityHound

9-Sep-2009
7:15:02 AM

On 7/09/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
>This is pretty harsh! Don't forget that retailers in Australia engage
>in anti competitive, sole importer agreements with manufactures in order
>to maintain artificially high prices.

Interesting that in NZ if I tried to import BD and then the current importer tried to stop me in any way then the current importer is liable to be prosecuted/sued for anti-competitive behaviour. Not the retailers fault in Oz as I dont think they have any choice but probably more whatever laws allow sole importer agreements.


The good Dr

9-Sep-2009
8:39:17 AM

On 8/09/2009 Mike Bee wrote:
>On 7/09/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
>>This is pretty harsh! Don't forget that retailers in Australia engage
>>in anti competitive, sole importer agreements with manufactures in order
>>to maintain artificially high prices.
>
>So misinformed that it's not funny. Get a clue before you post more crap
>and look even sillier.
>
>Australian retailers buy their gear from the official Australian distributors.
>They do this for heaps of reasons, such as getting the back up of warranty
>without the hassles of dealing with an overseas distributor, having good
>customer service with a supplier who understands the local market, being
>able to purchase in AUD at constant rates (safer from exchange rate fluctuations)
>and also because it's what the manufacturers themselves want to happen.
>
>For example, Sea to Summit sell Black Diamond in Australia, not because
>they asked for it, but because BD sought them out and asked S2S if they'd
>like to become the Australian distributor. This happened because S2S had
>a great reputation for customer service, being run by outdoors people,
>and because by going to S2S, BD would get more market penetration than
>they could when Paddy Pallin were the importer. This has worked out well,
>as now most shops can sell BD gear, BD get more sales, and their brand
>is represented by a supplier who are renowned for having some of the best
>customer service in the business.
>If you have complaints about the price of gear in Oz, the other two parties
>in the process need as much, if not more attention, namely, the manufacturer
>and the distributor. After all, these are the guys who set the prices.
>
>Gear costs more over here because there is an importer who has to make
>a cut too.
>In the states, the gear goes from manufacturer -> freight company -> retailer
>In Oz, the gear goes from manufactuer -> freight company -> aussie distributor
>-> freight company -> retailer.
>There are more steps in the Aussie supply chain, and each step costs money.
>Mark up from wholesale to retail isn't done on an absolute $$ value, it's
>done as a %, so if the base is higher to begin with (as it is because it
>has an extra business trying to make a cut), you end up with a disproportionately
>high RRP.
>
>I'm not saying gear isn't expensive in Australia, because it is, but blaming
>it on retailers is absolutely crap, as they can only buy from the suppliers
>who can supply them. Abusing their service and their investment in floor
>space and stock holding and attempting to justify it as you have done,
>is a weak argument that holds no water and is nothing except an excuse
>to try and justify being a stingy bastard. It's people like you who will
>eventually make it impossible to run a good climbing shop in Australia
>because of low turn over, high stock holdings, and high staffing costs.

Unfortunately that is how it works, EXCEPT ... you forgot to add Import Duty as well, so the Aust Government is also taking a cut. It is the Tyrany of distance. It is like trying to buy a pair of Blundstone boots (when they were manufactured in Oz) in the US. They were about twice the price you paid here.


cruze

9-Sep-2009
8:55:56 AM

If the purchaser wants the added service of being able to try a product before purchase and return a product simply if there is a fault then they should buy local. If the purchaser wants to be able to save money by purchasing a parallel import and run the risk of poor service should anything go wrong then they should buy direct from overseas. As we are told time and time again (and I am no economist) competitive market forces determine the nature of the market. Our government is certainly not protectionist, so it is pretty harsh to criticise people who make their own choice. I tend to buy online and direct which has led in the past to a protracted electric razor saga to get it fixed, and a faulty headtorch which REI did a great job of replacing.

Prices in stores don't tend to fluctuate - they usually trend upwards. At the moment our dollar is high. The local retailers should be making a killing, or at least the importers like S2S. When the dollar falls the local retailers/importers will possibly be finding it tougher, but should attract a greater share of the market if the individual realises they have reduced buying power by going direct. Swings and roundabouts.


anthonyk

9-Sep-2009
9:38:14 AM

egosan

9-Sep-2009
10:58:37 AM

Irrespective of any arguments of right or wrong, I can buy a full set of C3s from an online
retailer in the US ship to my families house. Give my Mom 100USD to ship it to me and
my total cost in AUD is 462.919 AUD. The best I can see from an Australian retailer is
715AUD.

I can get a massage with a happy ending with the difference.

What is the Aussie retailer offering other than good service and the convenience of having
the shiney new toy in my hand sooner?

In AnthonyK's case there certainly was no happy ending. It is hard for Aussie retailers to
compete. The only way they can is by offering exemplary customer service. Frankly my
experiences with Aussie retailers have been mixed.


ajfclark

9-Sep-2009
11:11:28 AM

On 9/09/2009 egosan wrote:
>Give my Mom 100USD to ship it to me and my total cost in AUD is 462.919 AUD. The best I can see from an Australian retailer is 715AUD.

I did this with 3 day express shipping rather than using your mum and it was $416 total.

> What is the Aussie retailer offering other than good service and the convenience of having the shiny new toy in my hand sooner?

The ability to try things on and be sure you have the right size before you hand over money...


kuu

9-Sep-2009
11:16:53 AM

On 9/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>
>Black Diamond changing to go through S2S is unfortunately the exception
>not the rule (and how long were they just going through OutdoorAgs for?).

When was Black Diamond gear distributed by Outdoor Agencies?

psd

9-Sep-2009
11:18:22 AM

On 9/09/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>On 9/09/2009 egosan wrote:
>>Give my Mom 100USD to ship it to me and my total cost in AUD is 462.919
>AUD. The best I can see from an Australian retailer is 715AUD.
>
>I did this with 3 day express shipping rather than using your mum and
>it was $416 total.

Can someone please make the obvious comment about everyone using egosan's mum?

There are 143 messages in this topic.