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dodgy retailers


anthonyk

4-Sep-2009
12:59:33 PM

On 4/09/2009 Duncan wrote:
>Sorry Anthony, this is a very different situation. Climbing shoes aren't
>yes or no - it comes down to personal preference. You didn't HAVE to take
>the staff members advice, and you've been climbing for long enough to be
>able to make your decision. Seems like you learnt an expensive lesson
>- sometimes you need to say no.

like i've said about 3 times, its not just about the first purchase being wrong. its because the shop are too cheap to stand by their own advice and expect people to buy things at full price twice if their advice is wrong.

On 4/09/2009 widewetandslippery wrote:
>anthonyk as I said in an earlier post: you lost.
>
>You felt pressured? man up. say no. order a different size. go somewhere
>else.
>
>I like many here have bought the wrong equipment and the wrong sized equipment
>numerous times. Sometimes you lose.

you might want to think about why I decided to post something about it. to get sympathy? no. so that retailers learn that dodgy behaviour doesn't pay and they need to learn to treat their customers right.

this thread has been viewed more than 2000 times and likely by several hundred people. WWS I don't really care what your opinion is about whether I "lost" or not, you obviously don't get it.


wallwombat

4-Sep-2009
1:01:04 PM

On 4/09/2009 widewetandslippery wrote:

>I like many here have bought the wrong equipment and the wrong sized equipment
>numerous times.

I can vouch for that. WW&S has a whole quiver of shoes that don't fit him.


skink

4-Sep-2009
1:04:18 PM

On 4/09/2009 Duncan wrote:
>
>Nope. They're katanas - they stretch if you're willing to stretch them.

pfft, they are marketed as low stretch shoes everywhere - the shop assistant was wrong, as are you.

yankinoz

4-Sep-2009
1:36:00 PM

On 4/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>like i've said about 3 times, its not just about the first purchase being
>wrong. its because the shop are too cheap to stand by their own advice
>and expect people to buy things at full price twice if their advice is
>wrong.

A few people I climb with reckon that a climbing shoe isn't too small if you can get it on your foot. I don't agree with that advice but I don't think it's 'wrong' - it's a different opinion on shoes. I too was given the same advice at ME when buying my last pair of shoes there. I disagreed and bought the size I wanted but don't think for a second the advice was 'wrong'.

Duncan

4-Sep-2009
1:36:35 PM

On 4/09/2009 andesite wrote:
>On 4/09/2009 Duncan wrote:
>>
>>Nope. They're katanas - they stretch if you're willing to stretch them.
>
>pfft, they are marketed as low stretch shoes everywhere - the shop assistant
>was wrong, as are you.

What an angry little man you are! So the fact that my katanas stretched is what? Some kind of crazy anomaly, unexplainable by our understanding of the laws of the universe as we know them?

psd

4-Sep-2009
1:46:38 PM

On 4/09/2009 Duncan wrote:

>What an angry little man you are! So the fact that my katanas stretched
>is what? Some kind of crazy anomaly, unexplainable by our understanding
>of the laws of the universe as we know them?

Duncan clearly they don't stretch - the manufacturer said so. The only explanation is that your feet have shrunk - you weirdo feet shrinking type ...


cruze

4-Sep-2009
2:31:50 PM

Yeah Katanas stretch heaps. Either that or years of foot binding is finally paying off and my feet are shrinking. Maybe the manufacturer should put that on their website.


wallwombat

4-Sep-2009
2:42:37 PM

On 4/09/2009 yankinoz wrote:
>A few people I climb with reckon that a climbing shoe isn't too small
>if you can get it on your foot. I don't agree with that advice but I
>don't think it's 'wrong' - it's a different opinion on shoes. I too was
>given the same advice at ME when buying my last pair of shoes there. I
>disagreed and bought the size I wanted but don't think for a second the
>advice was 'wrong'.

I adhere to your school of thought. I have climbed in super tight shoes and I have climbed in shoes that are a snug fit. If I am in pain I am not having a good time. To hell with grades. I don't climb hard enough to warrant wearing super tight painful shoes.

Now I mainly climb in a pair of Red Chilli Phantoms which are a nice snug fit. I also have a pair of Boreal Stingers that are a bit tighter but still not painful and a pair of Red Chilli Spirits which are so comfortable that I can wear them all day.


skink

4-Sep-2009
2:46:26 PM

On 4/09/2009 Duncan wrote:
>What an angry little man you are! So the fact that my katanas stretched
>is what? Some kind of crazy anomaly, unexplainable by our understanding
>of the laws of the universe as we know them?

Did you buy your Katanas in the afternoon? BTW how did you know I am little? And what has that got to do with anthonyk getting shafted?

Guniea Sauras Rex

4-Sep-2009
3:36:16 PM

On 4/09/2009 yankinoz wrote:
> I too was
>given the same advice at ME when buying my last pair of shoes there. I
>disagreed and bought the size I wanted but don't think for a second the
>advice was 'wrong'.

Any advice given is wrong if the sales assistant fails to listen (actively listen) to the customer and understand their needs and wants and guides the customer to an appropriate purchase.

Tiny shoes suit some customers - not all customers. Similarly super stiff board lasted shoes do not suit all beginner climbers. However this is the approach and advice most shoe salesmen will give - regardless of the person in front of them.

I find this behaviour by climbing shoe salesmen quite bewildering. Most of them have gone to (or are at) university. They are educated! However it seems that as soon as the customer lets on that they are after climbing shoes, the blinkers come on and there are only the above two shoe options - super tight or super stiff.


wallwombat

4-Sep-2009
4:02:49 PM

Yeah but being a climber is not a prerequisite for getting a job in an outdoor gear shop. Climbers aren't the only customers.

I recently asked a shop guy at MD in Canberra if they stocked or if he knew anyone who stocked DMM gear. He said he had never heard of DMM, so they couldn't have been around for very long.


anthonyk

4-Sep-2009
4:31:25 PM

well these are the manufacturers recommendations on fitting ( http://www.sportiva.com/products/sizing.php )

"Remember to factor in stretch. Unlined slip-lasted shoes tend to stretch a bit more than lined shoes -- about one full size. Lined shoes stretch about a half size." - note Katanas are lined shoes, not unlined.

"While it isn’t a black or white issue, a general rule dictates that soft shoes require a tighter fit, two to three sizes smaller than your street shoe size." - these are more than 3 sizes under street size

"Remember: a well-fit comfortable shoe will work better than an ill-fitting tighter shoe."

its pretty elitist to say that because you like super tight shoes then thats how you should recommend them. and its pretty arrogant to say that because your shoes stretched right, then anyone else who's shoes didn't stretch enough doesn't know what they're talking about. ..have you ever considered that the fit you got might actually be larger?

Duncan

4-Sep-2009
5:08:18 PM

On 4/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>"Remember to factor in stretch. Unlined slip-lasted shoes tend to stretch
>a bit more than lined shoes -- about one full size. Lined shoes stretch
>about a half size." - note Katanas are lined shoes, not unlined.

>"While it isn’t a black or white issue, a general rule dictates that soft shoes require a tighter fit, two >to three sizes smaller than your street shoe size." - these are more than 3 sizes under street size

Sure, but you bought them! I kind of feel like you're abdicating personal responsibility, which is definitely out of character for you.

>its pretty elitist to say that because you like super tight shoes then
>thats how you should recommend them. and its pretty arrogant to say that
>because your shoes stretched right, then anyone else who's shoes didn't
>stretch enough doesn't know what they're talking about. ..have you ever
>considered that the fit you got might actually be larger?

I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm willing to put up with a bit of pain from my shoes, but hey, I've only put my harness on three times in the last 18 months, so I don't wear my shoes for extended periods all that much. Anyway, it wasn't my intention to cause offense to you.


anthonyk

4-Sep-2009
5:39:02 PM

On 4/09/2009 Duncan wrote:
>Sure, but you bought them! I kind of feel like you're abdicating personal
>responsibility, which is definitely out of character for you.

no i'm happy to take my part of it, but just making my point, i was surprised at how many people were saying they thought it was fine for a shop to give bad advice and turn around and say tough luck.


ambyeok

4-Sep-2009
5:57:27 PM

The shop f^^ked up, they could have given you a decent discount and still made money from you. I mean, its not like you were asking for a refund or asking the shop to lose any money. The shop made a bad customer service decision and is now reaping shit PR. I make this post to add my voice to the message that the climbing community is a small niche market and if you shonk people on customer service you will pay the price.

(edit: p.s. I emailed ME a link to this thread, lets see what they say)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Sep-2009
1:28:41 AM

On 4/09/2009 ambyeok wrote:
>The shop f^^ked up, they could have given you a decent discount and still
>made money from you. I mean, its not like you were asking for a refund
>or asking the shop to lose any money. The shop made a bad customer service
>decision and is now reaping shit PR. I make this post to add my voice to
>the message that the climbing community is a small niche market and if
>you shonk people on customer service you will pay the price.
>
>(edit: p.s. I emailed ME a link to this thread, lets see what they say)

From the link to them provided earlier in this thread, they say the following two excerpts (almost identical), from different locations on their site;

>

Advice is an essential part of the equation and the staff at Mountain Equipment are our biggest asset. They are all outdoor enthusiasts with a wealth of experience in climbing, mountaineering, trekking and bushwalking. They have probably been where you want to go, be it the Blue Mountains, Tasmania, New Zealand or Nepal and will do their best to ensure the gear matches your requirements in every respect. Combining this experience with an in-depth knowledge of the equipment, the staff at Mountain Equipment can help you maximise your enjoyment of your trip, the mountains and their surroundings.

&

>Advice is an essential part of the equation. The staff at Mountain Equipment do their best to ensure the gear matches their customers in every respect. By experienced, what we mean is - they have been where you want to go! We employ people who simply enjoy the outdoors and, most likely, have their own area of expertise, be it trekking or mountaineering in Nepal or New Zealand, or rock climbing in the Blue Mountains and abroad. Combined with an indepth knowledge of the equipment, we can help you enjoy the mountains and their surroundings.

Given the above motherhood statements, I will be surprised if they don't make an effort to respond constructively to some of the opinions expressed on this thread.

widewetandslippery

7-Sep-2009
8:56:08 AM

On 4/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>well these are the manufacturers recommendations on fitting ( http://www.sportiva.com/prod
>cts/sizing.php )
>

anthonyk you have just redeemed yourself as the classic aussie bloke. You've decided to read the instructions after stuffing up.


ambyeok

7-Sep-2009
9:47:00 AM

"cash discounts for each pull-up. each successive pull-up - $1 males / $2 females discount on any rock show in stock in addition to exsiting discount*"


salty crag

7-Sep-2009
10:01:35 AM

Had similar experience with well known surf shop at Torquay re a wettie. After going back to store and getting cold shoulder I on advice from a friend wrote a letter to consumer affairs and state ombudsman, never sent letter but cc a copy to surf store. Two weeks later recieved full refund, pair of binoculars, tee shirt, towel and full page letter of appology from manager. Pays to pursue your rights!
ps. If your unsure of purchase don't buy, take time out to think about it.

Guniea Sauras Rex

7-Sep-2009
10:17:26 AM

On 7/09/2009 salty crag wrote:
>ps. If your unsure of purchase don't buy, take time out to think about
>it.

:)

This doesn't always happen though - even if you have great self confidence it is difficult to resist a sales person using the pressure tactic, especially after the sales person has developed 'report' with you. You want to believe them, they've been nice to you - the sales person after all seems like they have greater knowledge and experience of the product. Maybe what they are saying is true...you start to second guess your self - perhaps I really didn't do enough research....The product seems like good value...

Car sales people do this all the time; think of how many houses go at auction for over inflated prices. Why do so many 'intelligent' people get suckered into scams?

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