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General Climbing Discussion

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dodgy retailers


rodw

9-Sep-2009
3:29:51 PM

You can always use a mail forwarder in the US too, if you dont have a US address to send it too...

http://www.shipito.com/

One Day Hero

9-Sep-2009
7:45:36 PM

On 8/09/2009 Mike Bee wrote:
>So misinformed that it's not funny. Get a clue before you post more crap
>and look even sillier.

Nope, I'm just gonna post more crap :)
>
>Australian retailers buy their gear from the official Australian distributors.
>They do this for heaps of reasons, such as getting the back up of warranty
>without the hassles of dealing with an overseas distributor, having good
>customer service with a supplier who understands the local market, being
>able to purchase in AUD at constant rates (safer from exchange rate fluctuations)
>and also because it's what the manufacturers themselves want to happen.

If they have such excellent and expensive customer service and such a great understanding of the market, why couldn't this dude get his shoes fitted right/exchanged?
>
>If you have complaints about the price of gear in Oz, the other two parties
>in the process need as much, if not more attention, namely, the manufacturer
>and the distributor. After all, these are the guys who set the prices.
>
I'll cop this one, it's probably the distributors more than the retailers who wield the power in their relationship. However, consumers cannot directly affect the distributors through their choices, we must go through retailers.

>Gear costs more over here because there is an importer who has to make
>a cut too.
>In the states, the gear goes from manufacturer -> freight company -> retailer
>In Oz, the gear goes from manufactuer -> freight company -> aussie distributor
>-> freight company -> retailer.

RP's are cheaper in MEC than in nati....explain that mr. economics pants?! Why don't any gear shops here cut out the middleman?.......oh yeah, sole importer agreements between manufacturers and importers make that illegal!?!

>I'm not saying gear isn't expensive in Australia, because it is, but blaming
>it on retailers is absolutely crap, as they can only buy from the suppliers
>who can supply them. Abusing their service and their investment in floor
>space and stock holding and attempting to justify it as you have done,
>is a weak argument that holds no water and is nothing except an excuse
>to try and justify being a stingy bastard. It's people like you who will
>eventually make it impossible to run a good climbing shop in Australia
>because of low turn over, high stock holdings, and high staffing costs.

The shops are pricing their stuff for maximum profit i.e. looking after no.1, the importers and manufacturers are pricing for maximum profit i.e. looking after no.1, I am doing whatever I can to get the cheapest gear i.e. looking after no.1.......why am I any more at fault than anyone else in this picture? Climbing shoes are not worth $300! It's blatent profiteering to price them that high, everyone in the supply chain should be ashamed!

Mike Bee

9-Sep-2009
8:20:34 PM

On 9/09/2009 cruze wrote:
>Prices in stores don't tend to fluctuate - they usually trend upwards.
>At the moment our dollar is high. The local retailers should be making
>a killing, or at least the importers like S2S. When the dollar falls the
>local retailers/importers will possibly be finding it tougher, but should
>attract a greater share of the market if the individual realises they have
>reduced buying power by going direct. Swings and roundabouts.

Retailers are only affected by the exchange rate with respect to how much a customer saves by shopping online. Wholesale prices tend to be stable month to month (normally fixed for a year at time).
Wholesalers are the ones who have to deal with fluctuating currencies effecting their profit margins directly.

On 9/09/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>but if you are talking about the retailers and the distributers together
>then what ODH said is pretty much right..

As a whole, but wasting a retail shop assistants time does nothing for having a go back at the distributors' pricing structures.

>Black Diamond changing to go through S2S is unfortunately the exception
>not the rule (and how long were they just going through OutdoorAgs for?).
> Name for me for example other shops in Sydney that stock this particular
>model of shoes I was looking at, LaSportiva Katanas. ..and thats why they
>stick them on the shelf for $250 now.

Intertrek (the La Sportiva importers) are pretty picky with who they sell their brands to, and often end up with exclusive dealerships for a particular brand within an area. This has no effect on their margins though. Mark ups on DMM and Wild Country tend to be lower than BD, Petzl etc, and La Sportiva in particular has the shittiest margins out of any climbing gear in Australia. If the standard retail mark up was applied to Katanas, they'd be selling for at least $279.

On 9/09/2009 adrian wrote:
>For example, I was trying to buy a pair of La Sportiva Spantiks, but no-one
>in Aus stocked them to even try on size. A certain staff member at Bogong,
>who I do all my in-country gear shopping with, pointed out that another
>La Sportiva boot used the same inner boot and spent over an hour fitting
>me with that boot to get my sizing. After that, they recommended a few
>overseas stores to try and sent me on my way.

Spatniks hey? Expensive tastes. Getting psyched for your travels then?

On 9/09/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
>If they have such excellent and expensive customer service and such a
>great understanding of the market, why couldn't this dude get his shoes
>fitted right/exchanged?

I was talking about the supplier. The apparently less than perfect customer service that the opening poster received was from a retailer.

>I'll cop this one, it's probably the distributors more than the retailers
>who wield the power in their relationship. However, consumers cannot directly
>affect the distributors through their choices, we must go through retailers.

I can see your point there, but your actions penalize the retailer far more than the supplier. It's the retail staff who are spending their time (and thus their stores' money) in fitting you. If there was no service, and you just walked in, grabbed some shoes, tried 'em on and buggered off, it'd be less offensive, but still, it's taking the piss.

>RP's are cheaper in MEC than in nati....explain that mr. economics pants?!
>Why don't any gear shops here cut out the middleman?.......oh yeah, sole
>importer agreements between manufacturers and importers make that illegal!?!

I don't know how much Phil in Nati is charging for RPs, but in Adelaide they cost about $20 a pop. I have no idea how they end up cheaper, except to suggest that MEC, by their very nature run at lower profit margins than other retailers?

>The shops are pricing their stuff for maximum profit i.e. looking after
>no.1, the importers and manufacturers are pricing for maximum profit i.e.
>looking after no.1, I am doing whatever I can to get the cheapest gear
>i.e. looking after no.1.......why am I any more at fault than anyone else
>in this picture? Climbing shoes are not worth $300! It's blatent profiteering
>to price them that high, everyone in the supply chain should be ashamed!

Noone charges high prices just for the sake of it, prices are determined on cost price + a fari markup that is determined to be adequate to cover the cost of the product, shipping, sales, presentation, overheads, advertising, and profit. I can assure you that margins in climbing gear aren't very high compared to many other classes of product.

citationx

9-Sep-2009
8:52:48 PM

On 9/09/2009 Mike Bee wrote:
>
>Noone charges high prices just for the sake of it, prices are determined
>on cost price + a fari markup that is determined to be adequate to cover
>the cost of the product, shipping, sales, presentation, overheads, advertising,
>and profit. I can assure you that margins in climbing gear aren't very
>high compared to many other classes of product.

I don't know about all importers and retailers, but i can tell you that in my past life I KNOW that the importer of certain brands marked up their import prices by 100% to come up with the wholesale price. The retailer then added a 100% markup on the wholesale price - meaning that customers would pay 400% of the cost of the buying the product from overseas in the first place. "Fair markup"? hahaha.

citationx

9-Sep-2009
10:04:46 PM

On 9/09/2009 egosan wrote:
>On 9/09/2009 ambyeok wrote:
>
>>Mountain tools shipped BD to oz with nay of a whimper nor protest
>
>My mom will be very disappointed to hear this.
>
>Personally, I have been stopped by backcountry.com and rei.com from shipping
>BD gear
>directly to Oz.
>

i've had two of these three companies ship me BD, Beal and DMM. The only two brands i've ever been barred from buying from the US from every store i tried was Patagonia and La Sportiva. Noone will ship them OS...


climbau

9-Sep-2009
10:06:02 PM

Not making excuses, just providing info.
Distributors in Australia can have freight costs doubled when a manufacturer only ships half of the
stock ordered but still packs it into original qty containers. Distributors will often have to pay for stock
before it ships from overseas (in many cases at the time the order is placed a substantial deposit is
payed with the remainder payable when it is ready to be loaded on the ship/plane). Retailers will also
on occasion be asked to pay upfront deposits.
Distributors will also have to foot the bill for warranty replacements/repairs and "goodwill"
repairs/replacements until such time as the manufacturer decides that it will replace goods (distributor
pays freight) or credit the account.

Seth

10-Sep-2009
10:53:31 AM

RPs cheaper in the states is gold!

I bought bottles of Barossa shiraz in Bishop, California for less than what I could pick them up for in Adelaide and the Barossa!

I also bought a litre bottle of Corona for about AU$5 in the states, think about that the next time you spend $8 or $9 on a normal bottle here....

Living in Australia isn't cheap.


ajfclark

10-Sep-2009
11:19:57 AM

On 10/09/2009 Seth wrote:
>I also bought a litre bottle of Corona for about AU$5 in the states, think about that the next time you spend $8 or $9 on a normal bottle here....

Isn't Corona made in Mexico and exported to other countries? I'd imagine getting beer from Mexico to the US is easy compared to getting it to AU.

gfdonc

10-Sep-2009
11:25:38 AM

I find it amusing that the standard tourist advice for travellers to Mexico is "don't drink the water" .. yet we're happy to import bottles of it as long as it says "Corona" on the outside.

Winston Smith

10-Sep-2009
11:31:06 AM

On 10/09/2009 gfdonc wrote:
>I find it amusing that the standard tourist advice for travellers to Mexico
>is "don't drink the water" .. yet we're happy to import bottles of it as
>long as it says "Corona" on the outside.
>

It was the beer's fault I got drunk...

psd

10-Sep-2009
11:32:50 AM

On 10/09/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>Isn't Corona made in Mexico and exported to other countries? I'd imagine
>getting beer from Mexico to the US is easy compared to getting it to AU.

I think it's now made here under licence? (it's tasteless rubbish anyway ..)


ajfclark

10-Sep-2009
11:33:55 AM

On 10/09/2009 psd wrote:
>I think it's now made here under licence? (it's tasteless rubbish anyway..)

Fosters' website still lists it as imported. They wouldn't lie to use would they?

Seth

10-Sep-2009
11:53:18 AM

tasteless rubbish until you add a dollop of hot chilli sauce or tabasco and a wedge of lime and then its on!

psd

10-Sep-2009
11:58:25 AM

so its tasteless until you add taste? ;-)

psd

10-Sep-2009
12:03:56 PM

On 10/09/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>Fosters' website
>still lists it as imported. They wouldn't lie to use would they?

Anything is possible!


evanbb

10-Sep-2009
12:05:36 PM

On 10/09/2009 Seth wrote:
>tasteless rubbish until you add a dollop of hot chilli sauce or tabasco
>and a wedge of lime and then its on!

You're doing beer wrong if:
a) you have to add things to it
b) it comes in a clear bottle.

Double fail for Corona.

widewetandslippery

10-Sep-2009
12:08:31 PM

Agreed they are the most important criterea but:
(c) It only comes in 330ml bottles.


ajfclark

10-Sep-2009
12:18:47 PM

What about "(d) Fosters has something to do with it"?

lrcsjr1203

3-Dec-2011
1:11:14 PM

[Edit by Chockstone Moderator. Spam deleted, and poster's user-id disabled. P.S. You don't appreciate irony kuu?]


kuu

3-Dec-2011
1:16:02 PM

Go away. This type of rubbish is not welcome and you obviously don't understand the meaning of this thread's title.

There are 143 messages in this topic.