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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Yes, up you go! 47
42% 
No, show some respect. 54
49% 
Wait till you get there to make your mind up. 10
9% 

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
Author
Uluru ethics

BigMike
28-Apr-2008
12:38:53 PM
I'm loading up the car and heading for the Red Centre next weekend.

I've been living in Australia for six years, so I'm relatively new to the debate about traditional ownership of land etc, but of course know that the question of whether one should climb Uluru is a controversial one.

My born-and-bred Australian mate tells me he's going up for sure, and I have no doubt that I'll have an urge to follow him.

So I'd like to ask you loyal Chockersers about the issue. I know that the issue has been discussed in the past, but not polled, to my knowledge. Feel free to add some comments in support of your opion, if you have the time and inclination.

Cheers

BigMike


IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Apr-2008
12:45:03 PM
While ever the middle ground of leaving the choice to the masses remains, then there will be many who ...



































... choose.

& if it is a 50/50 thing then the other half will be at variance!

Heh, heh, heh.
adgoneclimbing
28-Apr-2008
12:59:35 PM
I was there last year and chose not to go up (the ugly cables didn't entice me as a climber). Anyway the place has the most spiritual feel out of anywhere I've been in Oz, obviously it's been hallowed ground for eons, so if the Aboriginals don't want you to climb it... then hey I reckon pay some respect (it's not a big sacrifice). I did a lap around it and would totally recommend the walk. Also go check out the Olgas, they are awesome.

Personally I vote for taking all the metal crap off it. I'd like to see people have a crack at it free (cables/posts = aid)... it wouldn't even be an option for punters if the cables weren't there!

Adam

WM
28-Apr-2008
1:03:28 PM
I definitely think people should not climb it.

At the least I encourage you to go through the visitor's centre BEFORE climbing so that you can make a more informed decision, rather than blindly leaping off the bus and charging straight up it like most tourists. The visitor centre strongly swayed my decision and I subsequently didn't climb it. Not once have I regretted it.

Post edit: agree with adgoneclimbing about the "spiritual" feel. and there's so much good stuff to do other than the summit walk - the stuff around the base, the olgas, kings canyon etc, its not like you'll be short of things to do.

ajfclark
28-Apr-2008
1:10:44 PM
On 28/04/2008 adgoneclimbing wrote:
>I was there last year and chose not to go up (the ugly cables didn't entice
>me as a climber). Anyway the place has the most spiritual feel out of
>anywhere I've been in Oz, obviously it's been hallowed ground for eons,
>so if the Aboriginals don't want you to climb it... then hey I reckon pay
>some respect (it's not a big sacrifice).

I've heard many people say this. Maybe the option of "Wait till you get there to make your mind up" should be added to the poll?
widewetandslippery
28-Apr-2008
1:18:52 PM
If you want to climb it climb it. You are never going to keep everyone happy. "Spiritual"?, I believe it is made of rock not vodka.

oweng
28-Apr-2008
1:36:36 PM
I climbed it when I went there, and it was a highlight. Also did the walk around the outside, which was good, but by walking around the outside I didnt really get a feel for how big it actually is. I mean, sure it took a long time to walk around so it must have been pretty big, but you can only ever see a tiny piece of it at one time.

I was saved from any ethical hand wringing by having no idea before I climbed it that doing so was not encouraged.

If I had the choice about whether to climb it or not now, I think I would choose to climb it. Going there and not climbing to the top to me would be a bit like going on the CUB tour and not having the free beers afterwards.
ZERO
28-Apr-2008
1:46:11 PM
I read a book by Arthur Groom (father of Mountaineer Michael Groom) who, during his time living and exploring central Australia with the local indigenous people in the 1950s, climbed to the top of Uluru with 3 of the fellas from Hermannsburg mission.
None of them had any issues about transgressing a sacred site.
The really important sites are around the base, and these are all fenced off but able to be seen.
The Anangu people, who are the traditional owners, make a good living from park entry fee loyalties.
A few years ago one of the Elders passed away and they closed the climb for ten days as a mark of respect. Almost every tour from Japan cancelled their central Oz leg as a result, with a great financial loss to both the TO's and local economy. Many other tourists would not go if they could not climb.
Having done the chain about 20 years ago I found the geology and rock pools on top of the rock very interesting.
Don't be like some nuff nuffs and try an alternate route down. A few have been benighted while waiting to be choppered out.
Also, there is some climbing to be done around Alice Springs if you have a sense of adventure.
Ormiston Gorge and Glen Helen probably offer the best quality rock. Check the net and see what is there.
ZERO
28-Apr-2008
1:50:59 PM

>Personally I vote for taking all the metal crap off it. I'd like to see
>people have a crack at it free (cables/posts = aid)... it wouldn't even
>be an option for punters if the cables weren't there!
>
>Adam
>
There are a few documented free climbs from the 60s, the "kangaroo's tail" being one of the classics.
That sort of climbing may end up putting a big hole in your pocket, as it is now a park offence.

ajfclark
28-Apr-2008
2:26:41 PM
On 28/04/2008 kayakerSteve wrote:
>
>There are a few documented free climbs from the 60s, the "kangaroo's tail" being one of the classics.

From http://victoria.slv.vic.gov.au/print/ericthake/centralaust/photo04.html :



Do you know if this is a photo of the right part of the rock?

BigMike
28-Apr-2008
2:41:10 PM
On 28/04/2008 kayakerSteve wrote:
>I read a book by Arthur Groom (father of Mountaineer Michael Groom) who,
>during his time living and exploring central Australia with the local indigenous
>people in the 1950s, climbed to the top of Uluru with 3 of the fellas from
>Hermannsburg mission.

Interesting anecdote but it can be tricky making a ruling on the actions of a few....

The Native Americans around Monument Valley, Utah don't want anyone climbing those amazing totem pole things. However, from what I understand, permission was given for Clint Eastwood etc to be filmed atop one of them for "The Eiger Sanction" ... for a hefty fee. This argument has been subsequently used by elements of the climbing lobby ... "if they don't want us to climb it, how come they didn't mind letting a film crew do it for a big cheque" etc. You have to wonder who in the community gave the permission and trousered the cash, and whether the entire community agreed.

Also, would those three have been game to say, "sorry Mr Broom, we don't fancy climbing that"? Would they have felt they had no choice, or were under orders?

It's a tricksy business.....

lacto
28-Apr-2008
2:44:55 PM
i think you'll find it was in the 70's and ordered off ist time by rangers so they went back another weekend and completed the ascent even though told it was illegal and against the locals wishes .

AlanD
28-Apr-2008
2:58:23 PM
It's interesting to note that other aboriginal groups in the vicinity have no issues with non members of their group accessing other sacred areas, where they themselves are not permitted, such as regions of Katherine Gorge. I think there is a bit of double standards running personally, they are happy to take the revenue when they can get it, but with Uluru they think everyone will still enter the park and pay if they don't have access to the rock. The aboriginal ranges were quite shocked with my sister and her family when they turned the car around at the gate and didn't enter the park after they were informed that high winds had closed the rock that day. The previous day they had helicopted over it, so they had already seen it.
Paul
28-Apr-2008
3:14:45 PM
Didn't we have this same debate about climbing Uluru either last year or the year before?

post edit, it was under the topic 'Ayres Rock' in September 2006.

foreverabumbly
28-Apr-2008
3:25:40 PM
The main reason that they dont want you climbing Uluru is that they dont want tourist hurting themselves trying. there have been a lot of deaths where overseas tourists have had heart attacks trying. There will always be differing opinions, but the general concensus is that there is little cultural taboo to climb the rock. Again, the main reason why they try to stop you is so Japanese tourist dont kill themselves.

ajfclark
28-Apr-2008
3:27:09 PM
On 28/04/2008 Paul wrote:
>Didn't we have this same debate about climbing Uluru either last year or
>the year before?

This thread?


BigMike
28-Apr-2008
3:34:32 PM
On 28/04/2008 Paul wrote:
>Didn't we have this same debate about climbing Uluru either last year or
>the year before?
>
>post edit, it was under the topic 'Ayres Rock' in September 2006.

Yes we did, that's why I said in my opening post: "I know that the issue has been discussed in the past, but not polled, to my knowledge."

I was interested in trying to get a larger picture, not just a few (albeit appreciated) strong opinions...

ZERO
28-Apr-2008
4:08:09 PM
That is the tail. If you view it from side on it is a massive floating flake, probably requiring a long layback. It is a very prominent feature, I think on the NW end.
ZERO
28-Apr-2008
4:18:40 PM
>Also, would those three have been game to say, "sorry Mr Broom, we don't
>fancy climbing that"? Would they have felt they had no choice, or were
>under orders?

I don't recall Arthur Groom acting like a BIG WHITE BWANA giving orders, and from memory, the locals had no problem climbing the rock. This was in the days when there was no road, and the pioneering tourists had a hard slog by bus through the spinifex over several days.

The book is "I Saw A Strange Land", a great read if you like to read pre-tourism adventures in remote areas. Hard to get but may be in good libraries.
kieranl
28-Apr-2008
8:37:30 PM
For most of its height the crack of Kangaroos Tail is a runnerless chimney

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
There are 91 messages in this topic.

 

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