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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Yes, up you go! 47
42% 
No, show some respect. 54
49% 
Wait till you get there to make your mind up. 10
9% 

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
Author
Uluru ethics
earwig
30-Apr-2008
11:44:07 AM
If you ignore the handrail and chain it would be a run-out grade 2 until you get to the top section where it eases into an easy walk.
Bob Saki
30-Apr-2008
11:50:18 AM
what about the LHV start - I hear that adds a grade

deadbudgy
30-Apr-2008
12:25:23 PM
This issue is symbolic of the way the aboriginal people and their culture have been treated for the last 220 years. They have been walked over by contemporary society to the extent where pride in themselves and the ancient culture they uphold is nearly non-existent. By saying I will not walk up the rock you are acknowledging their culture as a part of you as Australian and part of todays society and helping to restore some of the pride that was destroyed by our forebears. Let the locals make some cash from the international tourists but as an Australian I think this is one small symbolic choice you can make to show that you acknowledge and care about the wrongs of the past and present. Hopefully in the future we can accept aboriginal culture into our society so it has as much bearing on decissions as christianity.
If you don't care then climb the rock.
widewetandslippery
30-Apr-2008
12:31:49 PM
Looking at the opinion poll, what is meant by "show some respect"? This seems an airy fairy comment. Who are you not respecting by climbing the rock? Some one disagrees with you and you disagree with them so you follow your own path is disrespectful?

A person is not being violated. The rock is being no more violated than climbing any other rock. Where is the disrespect?

Also above there was a mention of who owns Ayres. Most indigenous australians have a belief system that implies that they are the land and the land is them (to put it simply, sure someone else can say this better) and therefore any "ownership" at most is the land of the people rather than vica versa.

If you question whether I respect others belief systems the answer is no. They can not be respected as they do not exist.

I will tolerate them to a point that I arbitarily find intolerable. ie. I can handle catholics but can't handle my tax dollars paying for there "world youth day" (bring on the lions!). I have an expectation that my actions are taken that way as well.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30-Apr-2008
12:37:34 PM
deadbudgy wrote:
>This issue is symbolic (snip)
>If you don't care then climb the rock.

... So your saying it is OK for Japanese (who I might add fought against us in a recent World War), to climb an Australian sacred site but not Australians unless they can get over a guilt trip?

I would have thought that a fair dinkum sacred site would be worth preserving from all irreverent traffic.

The logic seems inconsistent to me.

Bob Saki
30-Apr-2008
12:43:01 PM
well M9, there's a lot of PC garbage being permeated through our society that leads to this contradictory doublethink.


deadbudgy
30-Apr-2008
12:46:58 PM
That is exactly what I am saying. I know some people don't believe in symbolic gestures but small things add up to eventually make a big thing. Hopefully the end point is where the locals don't have to let people crawl all over the rock to make money so they can fit in with the values of todays society. I said if you don't care then climb the rock because no one will stop you. I think that if you have a full understanding of the issue you will realise it is more than just a guilt trip. It is called empathy.

rodw
30-Apr-2008
12:47:11 PM
Very illogical if you also look at it this way..

Some Aboriginal people call Australia day ....Invasion day......which infers hostile intent ie war...and since they lost the land they must have lost the war...but "us" as victors do not get to climb the spoils of said won campaign....

On the other hand the Japanese who had their "invasion" day" defeated, ie lost the war, do get to climb the rock...

....guess thats just another reason that proves war is pointless.



IdratherbeclimbingM9
30-Apr-2008
12:55:35 PM
On 30/04/2008 deadbudgy wrote:
>I think that if you have a full understanding of the issue you will realise it is more than just a guilt trip. >It is called empathy.

For the record I voted in the category 'Wait till you get there to make your mind up', so I am not advocating one side or the other, but am interested in the debate / logic.

My own ethic is torn between wanting to climb it (perhaps like BigMike), and the 'respect' / empathy. (WW&S has put another interesting slant on that point).
It is a hard thing to delineate between spiritual/humanality aspects of a decision when both aspects are inextricably entwined...

deadbudgy
30-Apr-2008
12:57:43 PM
On 30/04/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>
>My own ethic is torn between wanting to climb it (perhaps like BigMike),
>and the 'respect' / empathy. >(WW&S has put another interesting slant on that point).
>It is a hard thing to delineate between spiritual/humanality aspects of
>a decision when both aspects are inextricably entwined...

I agree

rodw
30-Apr-2008
1:08:00 PM
On 30/04/2008 Bob Saki wrote:
>what about the LHV start - I hear that adds a grade

You mean the sit down one?
gfdonc
30-Apr-2008
3:05:49 PM
FWIW, I'm a little cynical in the matters of administration of the rock, revenues and the true meaning of "sacred".

As reported in Australian Photographer (I recall) a few years back - try getting a commercial photography permit to take shots of the Rock to see what dynamics are in force.

- As an amateur from standard angles = no charge (apart from visitor permit fees)
- As a pro - from selected angles only, with restraints AND with a large fee attached.

i.e. no photographs except if unless you pay us and only where we allow it - sounds like revenue generation and power-tripping to me.

Disclaimer - my information is fairly dated but I do recall the article.

My summary: the rock is a natural feature that holds special meaning to some and not to others. So what?


BigMike
30-Apr-2008
3:08:30 PM
On 30/04/2008 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Looking at the opinion poll, what is meant by "show some respect"? This
>seems an airy fairy comment.

Different cultures have different concepts of what is sacred to their culture.

For example there's a bit of heat being generated up here in Sin City over this Australian Fashion Week story in which World War II medals etc were used as fashion adornments.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/fashiones/fashion-weeks-anzac-insult/2008/04/29/1209234862805.html

Some people, actually a lot of people, say this is disrespectful to our heritage.



Bob Saki
30-Apr-2008
4:18:47 PM
well then so is the beatles get-up in Sgt Peppers

sheesh we are all way to sensitive

Australia needs a dose of Harden the F*$k Up!
earwig
30-Apr-2008
4:22:14 PM
I wonder if the souvenior shop sells "I climbed the Rock" t-shirts? Mike, can you have a look when you're there.

BigMike
30-Apr-2008
4:23:49 PM
On 30/04/2008 earwig wrote:
>I wonder if the souvenior shop sells "I climbed the Rock" t-shirts? Mike,
>can you have a look when you're there.

I'm told you can buy two designs:

1. "I climbed Ayers Rock".

2. "I didn't climb Uluru."

evanbb
5-May-2008
4:41:04 PM
On 30/04/2008 gfdonc wrote:
>My summary: the rock is a natural feature that holds special meaning to
>some and not to others. So what?

I think this is the crux of the issue. It is a natural feature, and I don't believe anyone has ownership of natural features. Yes, it may be a spiritual place for the Koori, but as a climber, a big rock is a spiritual place for me too. Whose spirituality is worth more?

evanbb
5-May-2008
4:41:59 PM
And did you climb it Mike? I hear it's a total sandbag.
Bob Saki
5-May-2008
5:16:07 PM
On 5/05/2008 evanbb wrote:
Whose spirituality is worth more?

well in this nation if it has anything to do with women or aboriginals your spiritual validation/s come a very distant second

Capt_mulch
5-May-2008
5:24:04 PM
I reckon we should get on and grid bolt it!!

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
There are 91 messages in this topic.

 

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