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Araps Rebolting / Kachoong Retrobolted!

BoaredOfTheRings

12-Jan-2006
2:54:44 PM

On 12/01/2006 Bob Saki wrote:
>On 12/01/2006 Crossdresser wrote:
> - but
>>perhaps some communication by way of a meeting could be arranged between
>>the bolters and the 'ACTUP'. Going on a renegade removal/replacement
>war
>>could lead to an even worse scenario...
>>
>
>there must be some meeting of the minds- a bolting war for lack of a better
>term would be acrimonious and divisive
>c'mon people it's mabo, it's the constitution - it's just the vibe of
>the thing -
>let diplomacy reign!

There have been meetings in the past and at the time the conclusion was the replacement of manky bolts and rap stations servicing an area. (Places where in the past there was an ever increasing number of crusty slings as an example) No consultation into the placement of the bolts and lower offs has been made with the climbing community. ACTUP is just returning climbs to there original state (nobody has a problem with replacing a crap bolt with a good one).

dalai

12-Jan-2006
2:57:20 PM

Chris - my interpretation of Crossdressers comment is that his inclusion of you in his statement was only in regards to replacing the new bolt with a piton in the original placement. (leaving the fixed historic gear in). Not implying you were also chopping bolts.

Before people get any more excited, can anyone actually confirm these bolts exist, rather than relying on One Day Hero's potential super troll?

Jonesy

12-Jan-2006
3:05:34 PM

On 12/01/2006 dalai wrote:
>Chris - my interpretation of Crossdressers comment is that his inclusion
>of you in his statement was only in regards to replacing the new bolt with
>a piton in the original placement. (leaving the fixed historic gear in).
>Not implying you were also chopping bolts.

Dalai - That was my interpretation too - I wasn't having a dig at Crossdresser, I just wanted to have it nailed down explicitly that I haven't (yet) chopped any bolts. People have been known to take things out of context.

>Before people get any more excited, can anyone actually confirm these
>bolts exist, rather than relying on One Day Hero's potential super troll?

A good idea.


nmonteith

12-Jan-2006
3:17:40 PM

Wheres Simey when we need him...


nmonteith

12-Jan-2006
3:33:34 PM

Doesn't Chockstone have a web camera pointed at Kachoong? We used to do a roaring trade selling
instant photos of the climbers cueing up for a ride on this megaclassic.

Nottobetaken

12-Jan-2006
3:42:39 PM

10th October these bolts were already in. That's 'straight from the horses mouth' so to speak.


cantcrimp

12-Jan-2006
4:22:32 PM

Just to make things clear the pin at the base of the wall, just after the belay, is now a ring. The pin in the roof is still there. Just so as people don’t get too worried the two rings at the top are lower offs, not protection for the route! Vaguely remember the chains that have been mentioned... There are also double rings on the photographer’s ledge now. Makes getting the photo of Kachoong the sport route all the easier...

signed

the horse


nmonteith

12-Jan-2006
4:44:48 PM

I wonder if anyone bothered to ask Glenn about this? All these new rap bolts seem mighty unnecessary
for a route you approach from above anyway. You need trad for most of the climb - why the inability to
place trad for your anchor? I am beginning to understand why some of the nati locals are getting a bit
pissed off with the Arapiles rebolting work. I set-up the SCV forums so that people considering rebolting
can suggest work that needs to be done - and for others to put their views across about if it is appropriate
or not. It seems to have worked fairly well for the Melb crags and for the Grampians. This secret bolting
society bullshit at Arapiles is frought with danger. Eventually they are going to go to far (maybe they
have already?).


alrob

12-Jan-2006
5:16:06 PM

perhaps we need a 24 hour watch from the roof of the pub in nati keeping and eye (and ear) out for these people. binoculars, security cameras, high powered rifle and scope.....

or we could just go out and climb.

whats done is done, as will continue being the case as more of these occurances pop up in the future. forget about it. who says placing it in the first place was correct? who says chopping it is correct? i didn't start climbing so that i could sit here on the net pulling hairs out over who's right and wrong when it comes to placing small bit of metal into large expances of rock. i'll clip it as i go, as i climb to enjoy climbing, not to scrutinise the protection available. those who disagee with the bolt, ignore it, go past it and enjoy the climbing yourself.

but, if you want someone to stir up the hornets nest a little.........

On 12/01/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>Wheres Simey when we need him...

maybe hes out "climbing"

On 5/02/2005 simey wrote:
>I've just read this thread and I am amazed to see that people have found
>this act so despicable. Firstly, I placed those fixed pins in the third
>belay of Watchtower Crack.

oh my simey......

On 5/02/2005 simey wrote:
>I'm getting sidetracked. Back to the pegs on Watchtower Crack... Maybe
>think twice before removing them.

done! i'll clip 'em anyway, its a rad route. will do it again next trip there....its been years since i first did it

On 12/01/2006 Jonesy wrote:
> In my opinion (disagree as much as you want) these actions demonstrate a complete lack
>of respect for just about every aspect of the climbing experience.

yeah, sorta agree with ya the jonsey....but......

>STOP RETROBOLTING ARAPS!!!!!!

totally agree with ya there mateo!!!

its like iraq.....its pretty f---ed, we can't do much now, and won't be the same as it once was, but if america stopped bombing the f--- out of it, least it wouldn't get worse.....?

**knock knock**
"oh, why hello Mr ASIO agent. No. I wasn't government bashing, i was using it as a comparison to the whole "Arapiles Retro-bolting Feud". no, i didn't realise Arapiles Retro-bolting Bashing fell under the new Sedition laws......20 years huh?. Just let me leave a note for mum on the bench telling here i'll be out for a while then......"


shaggy

12-Jan-2006
5:30:36 PM

On 12/01/2006 weakboy wrote:
> Just so as people don’t get too worried the two rings at the top are lower offs,
>Vaguely remember the chains that have been mentioned...
>There are also double rings on the photographer’s ledge now. Makes getting
>the photo of Kachoong the sport route all the easier...

My fooking god of loosers and pricks, Am I seriously falling for an awesome troll, or are what my eyes are reading playing tricks on me from all that acid i took all those years ago....

Lower offs? Excuse me?? something with two bolts and the rest trad need lower offs? Did I miss that Kachoong was really a sports route? Hmm, it was my cams that tricked me.
Chains? You need to rap, to avoid a 3 minute walk?
Double rings on the Photograpgers (hmm I cant even spell my own proffesion...) ledge? The one that you have to solo to get to in the first place? As in, never solo up something you cant down climb thing? Like grade 5 or whatever it is?
Oh shite, get A life people, or maybe I need to and stop reading this crap, and just climb more like Ad's said....
If those bolts are really there..................... *Sigh*

BoaredOfTheRings

12-Jan-2006
5:43:21 PM

Unfortunately it's not a troll, can confirm ring in face at start too.

Shit this makes me angry


shaggy

12-Jan-2006
5:57:43 PM

Well, the ring in the face, vaugely understandable, potentially a pretty bad fall there....but....the rest.....*sigh!!!!*

Seriously, who put this shit in, don't be a pussy, stand up and justify your case, if you have ideas, let us hear them!


cantcrimp

12-Jan-2006
8:14:15 PM

Bored, how close are the rings to the chains? I remember commenting on them at the time but cannot remember the location of the chains. Do they service completely different abseils?

chalkischeap

12-Jan-2006
10:24:15 PM

Please can someone volunteer to take out the 4 bolts at the top of Kachoong.

2 reasons:

1. They have not been needed for the last 30 years.
2. If they remain, then lower offs will pop up like mushrooms all over Arapiles.

............. probably full retrobolting within 10 years.

I can't believe how everyone is being so calm about this.

BoaredOfTheRings

12-Jan-2006
10:39:32 PM

On 12/01/2006 chalkischeap wrote:
>I can't believe how everyone is being so calm about this.

Believe me I'm not being calm about this! The tosser (and I've had several discussions with this person about this type of action before) is overseas atm. By the way his justification is that "That's what it's like in Europe so we are just bringing Araps in to line with the rest of the world (there is another person involved who is in Melb)".

You people on this web site have no idea of the extent of the damage that has been going on at the Mount for the last couple of years.

WAKE UP, climbing heratage is being destroyed!!!!!!!!!

maxdacat

13-Jan-2006
12:28:55 AM

What are the natural placements like around the rings and chains...I can't quite tell from the photo.

BoaredOfTheRings

13-Jan-2006
12:38:05 AM

On 13/01/2006 maxdacat wrote:
>What are the natural placements like around the rings and chains...I can't
>quite tell from the photo.

JESUS!!!!!!!!!! Take 3 steps in any direction (actually not towards the edge) and you could use 5 x the amount of gear you have just used on the route! Not to mention the trees and bollards.


Mike Graham

13-Jan-2006
3:04:14 AM

Those photos above are pretty disgusting! I can only hope the REAL climbers at Araps can get a handle on this.

You can’t hide this sort of behavior behind the guise of improving a route or making the cliffs safer. This “new school” is taking leaps backwards. “Clean climbing” should still be paramount, the gear abounds to do this. You guys with power drills are like ignorant hunters, you go around shooting at anything, and then you leave the carcasses to rot.

Arapiles has never been behind Europe. If some YoYo mentioned above thinks this will bring it in line with the rest of the world he doesn’t have a clue. It’s more like spreading cancer or maybe Aids. Retrobolters tend to be people that can’t climb at the standard of the first ascent party. They either don’t have the ability or the head to lead the route or have not yet developed the experience needed to do it.

Plain and simple,

Mike Graham


cantcrimp

13-Jan-2006
7:09:38 AM

Firstly I would like to point out that Kachoong and Mind Arthritus hasn't been retro-bolted. There has just been a ring place where a peg once was. The real problem in my opinion is the two sets of lower-offs so close to each other.

>Retrobolters tend
>to be people that can’t climb at the standard of the first ascent party.

I know a number of the guys doing some of the re-equipping/adding lower offs at araps and the are actually cutting edge climbers, Repeating a lot of hard/bold classics as well as establishing hard new problems. So I would call them REAL climbers.

So do people have a problem with any lower offs above Kachoong or just the fact that there are 2 sets so close to each other.


nmonteith

13-Jan-2006
9:01:06 AM

On 13/01/2006 Mike Graham wrote:
>You guys with power drills are like ignorant hunters, you go around shooting
>at anything, and then you leave the carcasses to rot.

?! But guys with handrills are like ancient hunters who quietly stalk their pray then kill them with a
stone knife?

>Retrobolters tend
>to be people that can’t climb at the standard of the first ascent party.
>They either don’t have the ability or the head to lead the route or have
>not yet developed the experience needed to do it.

I think you will find this to be very quite un-true. Every route I have ever retrobolted (with direct
permission from FAist) I have led on the original dodgy gear. I usually lead the first in its original form
to see exactly why it was led that way. If you talk to many first ascentists about why they bolted a
route a certain way you quickly realize most of the time they didn't think very hard about it! Most new
routes established in Australia don't have a huge ethical debate conducted before they get bolted.
Usually the reason there is a big runout is because the bolter coudln't bothered to hand-drill one more
bolt - or they are a really solid clibmer and felt comfortable with a huge runout on the 'easy' section. In
my experience if you ask these guys if its ok to 'fix up' their climbs then they usually agree to subtle
changes. I have only re-bolted a handfull routes that I havn't actually led myself - and i have rebolted
hundreds of climbs.

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