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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
Please help gym etiquette advice needed urgently
Stugang
24-Feb-2019
11:57:41 PM
Hey all question for you masters of all knowledge.....

I’ve never considered myself anal regarding being super safe. Not that I seek danger just that I think climbing safety has most to do with being practical with what you’ve got and common sense once you’ve got an understanding of the basics.

I’m climbing a lot more in gyms now than I have ever and I’m now getting exposed to stuff that seems just stupid. To make it worse some of it is done a lot and condoned by “instructors” (allegedly).

Am I going crazy and getting old and becoming mr super safety but is the following situation kosher or bullshit......two people leading different routes but clipping into all the same QuickDraws. Ie. two ropes on different routes going through the same draws climbing at same time (one higher than other though).

To me it seems dumb to put it a polite way. Apart from being rude you’ve got possibilities of belayers colliding and also seems that risk of unclipping yourself during a fall is increased. If you really do have to share bolts isn’t unclipping their rope and then clipping yours safer? (As long as they’ve got a couple clipped below them).

Have I been living in a cave to long? Is this behaviour OK and I need to catch up with the times? As I was met with a fair bit of hostility when I suggested that it was a bad idea.

trog
25-Feb-2019
3:19:44 AM
Dodgy.

Good way to damage the ropes too.

White Trash
25-Feb-2019
6:30:27 AM
What the urgency, are they still on the route? Or is your rep getting too fragile?

If the first then Darwins Law of natural selection will sort it, an if the second then affirmed you are right because apart from the probs you mention there’s also potential cross loading of biners and rope glazing.
Makes me wonder what the force on top piece if climbers manage to simulfall.

Going to be some interesting safety issues outdoors if ever these peeps progress that far with the same mentality.

You really ought to get them to export this product to the Grampians as it will halve the number of new route bolts required.
bart
25-Feb-2019
7:10:39 AM
Total no-no. No way any manufacturer would approve this use hence by allowing it the gym would be in a very sketchy insurance/liability situation. Would definitely report it to the management.
kieranl
25-Feb-2019
7:32:49 AM
Can't think of any good reason for doing this. The hostile response pretty much confirms it. If they were able to justify it sensibly they would have.

Would be very dodgy if the lower person went to clip the top piece before the top climber had clipped the next one. Once in the french alps we had another party simul-leading a pitch just below my partner. This guy somehow managed to clip his rope around ours several times and brought us to a complete halt with rope-drag. Still haven't worked out how he managed to do it.

If something looks like it's wrong and being done for expedience then it probably is wrong.
FlatPeach
25-Feb-2019
9:18:07 AM
I thought the etiquette was to go up next to them on top rope and heckle until they fell.......
"Just dyno it"
"use your left footer...no, no, the other left footer"
"DDDDDDAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBB!!!!!!!!!!"

:P

Keenas
25-Feb-2019
3:30:48 PM
It’s also gonna invalidate all the data from those new “smart” draws.... see UKC for gear review.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27-Feb-2019
8:05:30 AM
On 24-Feb-2019 Stugang wrote:
>Hey all question for you masters of all knowledge.....
>
Encourage them to participate in Chockstone themselves for accessing a source of greater collective wisdom?

>I’ve never considered myself anal regarding being super safe. Not that
>I seek danger just that I think climbing safety has most to do with being
>practical with what you’ve got and common sense once you’ve got an understanding
>of the basics.
>
The basics are different these days, perhaps other than trial by error as the folk you’re dealing with seem to be doing.
If they survive then they too will consider themselves experienced!

>I’m climbing a lot more in gyms now than I have ever and I’m now getting
>exposed to stuff that seems just stupid. To make it worse some of it is
>done a lot and condoned by “instructors” (allegedly).
>
>Am I going crazy and getting old and becoming mr super safety but is the
>following situation kosher or bullshit......two people leading different
>routes but clipping into all the same QuickDraws. Ie. two ropes on different
>routes going through the same draws climbing at same time (one higher than
>other though).
>
>To me it seems dumb to put it a polite way. Apart from being rude you’ve
>got possibilities of belayers colliding and also seems that risk of unclipping
>yourself during a fall is increased. If you really do have to share bolts
>isn’t unclipping their rope and then clipping yours safer? (As long as
>they’ve got a couple clipped below them).
>
If I ever have my rope unclipped without my asking for that to happen, then it’d be on for young and old literally as well as figuratively!
Heh, heh, heh.

>Have I been living in a cave to long? Is this behaviour OK and I need
>to catch up with the times? As I was met with a fair bit of hostility when
>I suggested that it was a bad idea.

Yes you’re getting old and retreating to a gym-cave is proving to be a mirror of the difference in the times.

I experienced similar on the last Buffalo Aidfest when I was exposed to the ‘new’ concept of quickdraws consisting of a single lightweight krab with a dedicated loose-weave polyrope attached that has a doubled-back end loop in it, that cynches to bolt heads when tensioned; similar in concept to a glorified hero loop.

That climbers rack was only a very small weight fraction of mine... and although I can get my head around the strength properties of the ‘rope’ involved and the weave-trap concept of tension-strength (like the finger-trap novelty items in showbags when I was a kid), it was in a climbing sense still new and different for me, so provokes thought before trust in usage.
Olbert
27-Feb-2019
4:30:14 PM
On 27-Feb-2019 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
...
>I experienced similar on the last Buffalo Aidfest when I was exposed to
>the ‘new’ concept of quickdraws consisting of a single lightweight krab
>with a dedicated loose-weave polyrope attached that has a doubled-back
>end loop in it, that cynches to bolt heads when tensioned; similar in concept
>to a glorified hero loop.
>
>That climbers rack was only a very small weight fraction of mine... and
>although I can get my head around the strength properties of the ‘rope’
>involved and the weave-trap concept of tension-strength (like the finger-trap
>novelty items in showbags when I was a kid), it was in a climbing sense
>still new and different for me, so provokes thought before trust in usage.

I like to take a dump before I start a climbing day - I save a good half a kilo.
Stugang
27-Feb-2019
10:40:10 PM
Only just reread what I wrote and realised I missed a critical detail that made it even worse at the time. The high climber was actually resting on the rope creating tension on all the draws. As the route trended right a bit the tensioned draws were sitting at an angle to the right (some nearly horizontal) gates facing out from the wall. Cos the draws were under tension the lower climber actually had to push his rope through the firmly tensioned horizontal gate to get his rope in the draw.

He told me that he wasn’t backclipping so “what’s the problem”.
Poppy28
28-Feb-2019
5:51:33 AM
If you see dodgy stuff happening in the gym, alert the instructors. What you described is cooked. If I saw that at Gravity Worx they would be told to stop immediately and would consider suspending their right to lead.
dalai
28-Feb-2019
7:52:47 AM
On 24-Feb-2019 Stugang wrote:
>Have I been living in a cave to long? Is this behaviour OK and I need
>to catch up with the times? As I was met with a fair bit of hostility when
>I suggested that it was a bad idea.

"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

There are 12 messages in this topic.

 

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