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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
Yet more opinions on Grampians new routes moratori
mountbeckworth
1-Dec-2018
8:06:43 PM
First, I hope climbers can be respectful and agree that people can have differing views. Chalk, especially in overhangs and caves, is unsightly and may be in areas which have indigenous meaning (I can't just decide to use chalk climbing on St Pat's Cathedral). Perhaps a VCC committee's agreement might be needed before a route is bolted, and if disregarded, the bolts removed and the drilled holes filled. Could a static rope with loops say every 2 metres be clipped into (rather than needing bolts) and this be taken as the norm; you bolt, we won't put your climb in a guidebook.
We all live with rules, some of which seem to limit our personal pleasure...but I can't use hand grenades to go fishing, I am limited in the daily bag limit, and some fish species are protected. I can't chip new handholds on "Punks" or put in more bolts...or are you saying I should be able to?
Stugang
1-Dec-2018
9:32:38 PM
Iím not based in Melbourne atm and out of the loop. But if it is unthoughtful bolting and bouldering development in sensitive areas that has brought this to a head then it is a fkin joke. As soon as it got close to this routes should have been chopped and brainless developers kneecapped. FFS bolting near aboriginal artwork!!!! Those should have been removed carefully as soon as it happened and whoever did it given a very stern warning not to do that again (I am speaking politely). Honestly anyone that knew about those bolts and didnít agitate for their removal within seconds of finding out about their existence is also culpable in this bullshit situation we have now.

Itís not hard and climbers should not have let it get to the stage of being told what to do. In SA there was an awesome boulder and climbing place being developed in mid to late 90s. The potential is / was amazing with much easier access than other crags in the flinders ranges. When the developers got wind that it was a culturally significant site for the indigenous people a collective decision was made to stop going there and not speak another word of the place. it wasnít an easy decision and not everyone agreed 100% but it was stuck to and guess what the sun still comes up and we all continue to climb in awesome spots (just not that one) but we didnít piss off a bunch of people that have a longer and stronger association with the places we visit than us.
mountbeckworth
2-Dec-2018
3:41:22 AM
My post on one way to climb without needing bolts, using a static rope, is a bit confusing. I meant that you could climb using a proper climbing rope, but rather than clip into bolts, use quickdraws to clip into a separate static rope with loops. The static line would be anchored to the top of the climb.
One Day Hero
2-Dec-2018
7:25:21 AM
Wow, I had no idea that South Australian climbers were tested in the 90s and responded in such an admirable way. 25 years, and the secret was kept so well by everyone involved that not even a hint of this crag's existence leaked to the broader climbing scene.... then Stu just blurts it out!?!

Miguel75
2-Dec-2018
12:03:07 PM
On 2-Dec-2018 mountbeckworth wrote:
>My post on one way to climb without needing bolts, using a static rope,
>is a bit confusing. I meant that you could climb using a proper climbing
>rope, but rather than clip into bolts, use quickdraws to clip into a separate
>static rope with loops. The static line would be anchored to the top of
>the climb.

Why not cut the faff and just top rope?
dalai
2-Dec-2018
8:59:23 PM
On 2-Dec-2018 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 2-Dec-2018 mountbeckworth wrote:
>>My post on one way to climb without needing bolts, using a static rope,
>>is a bit confusing. I meant that you could climb using a proper climbing
>>rope, but rather than clip into bolts, use quickdraws to clip into a
>separate
>>static rope with loops. The static line would be anchored to the top
>of
>>the climb.
>
>Why not cut the faff and just top rope?

Except neither would work on any routes that are steep / traversing routes / inaccessible / longer than 30m to name a few reasons that sink either suggestion.

gordoste
3-Dec-2018
10:44:40 AM
Agree with you Stugang. My mind was not made up on this until I found out (courtesy of a terrific Vertical Life piece) that a bolt was placed within 1 metre of an art work. The bottom line is that climbers have behaved atrociously and other climbers have not corrected them. Anyone who knew about those bolts needs to take a good hard look in the mirror. Would we have happily stood by if someone bolted the Bard traverse? It's time to admit our mistakes and ask what we can do to regain the trust that we have abused.

Up until now, the most vocal folks who are active in the area seem to have been focussed on finding flaws in the way others are trying to clean up the mess. Hopefully this is just because (like me) they were unaware of all of the facts. We need leaders in the Grampians climbing community (i.e. the people that really count, not inter-state nobodies) speaking up (preferably in public) to deliver a clear message that they find the past behaviours totally unacceptable.
One Day Hero
3-Dec-2018
7:57:52 PM
On 2-Dec-2018 dalai wrote:
>Except neither would work on any routes that are steep / traversing routes
>/ inaccessible / longer than 30m to name a few reasons that sink either
>suggestion.

To be fair, as long as the route is reasonably straight and not too far over vertical, it's perfectly fine to toprope a full rope length.

I really agree with a large chunk of what Mt Beckworth is saying, despite some mild wackiness. People should at least look at other options prior to developing "model A sport climbing" (bottom belay, loweroff anchor below the cliff top). There probably does need to be community consultation prior to exploring new crags. At the very least, somebody in the climbing community needs to be a point of contact with Parks, have access to the list of significant sites, and be able to veto suggestions of exploring for crags in those areas........obviously climbers would need to contact "the person in the know" prior to wandering out exploring.

robb
3-Dec-2018
10:58:50 PM
To add to stuís comment- in SA the climbing club of SA and SAReA have worked hard and had solid support from the climbing community to develop good relationships with private landowners and especially national parks which has paid off monumentally .
Climbers are regularly consulted on access issues and also contribute to weed eradication projects in the parks. Iím not saying there havenít been issues but weíve worked together to solve the issues .
dalai
4-Dec-2018
5:59:10 AM
On 3-Dec-2018 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>To be fair, as long as the route is reasonably straight and not too far
>over vertical, it's perfectly fine to toprope a full rope length.

Not disagreeing, but that would account for what? 5 or 10% of the current sport routes in the Grampians with that number slashed for those where the top is easily accessed. Then how many you can get to the top involve scrambling up fragile gullies?
Douglas H
4-Dec-2018
6:28:04 AM
I like the idea of a climbing point of contact that knows of the cultural heritage areas and can advise on the go ahead or not. I thought Tracey currently filled that role, but it would be great if she had a currently definitive list. When heading out to 'I forget wall' it was her I asked to make sure there weren't any near by before having a proper explore. By the way, the majority of rock there is pretty average.
One Day Hero
4-Dec-2018
8:22:22 AM
On 4-Dec-2018 dalai wrote:
>Not disagreeing, but that would account for what? 5 or 10% of the current
>sport routes in the Grampians with that number slashed for those where
>the top is easily accessed.

Hey, I was trying to be positive. I didn't want to mention that someone who talks about not needing chalk and suggests substituting bolts on a fifty degree cave with a knotted rope dropped from above likely never climbed past the mid-teens and might be less than ten years from the retirement village anyway so should probably leave all this to the people who understand modern rockclimbing ('modern' being a broad term encompassing all the changes which have taken place since about 1975).

However, I chose not to go off on that rant, because if the suggestions were taken to a more appropriate venue (e.g. Point Perp), they actually make a lot of sense.

There are 12 messages in this topic.

 

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