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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 13 of 22. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 300 | 301 to 320 | 321 to 340 | 341 to 360 | 361 to 380 | 381 to 400 | 401 to 420 | 421 to 426
Author
Kim Carrigan BOOK
ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
4:34:26 PM
On 2/03/2017 simey wrote:

>>>If I was going to name the star character, it would be Mt Arapiles.

Cheers...reminded me to add this thread

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=127441

>>>Kim is only one of the players...

KIM will always be THE NUMBER ONE PLAYER between 1975-1985...as iva sed before everyone else was being dragged along in the slip stream of the CARRIGAN FREIGHT TRAIN ...

simey
2-Mar-2017
5:11:00 PM
On 2/03/2017 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 2/03/2017 simey wrote:
>>There is a definitely a story to be told about Australian climbing from
>75 to
>>85 (whether it be book or film)
>
>Do you have any idea how sick of hearing this tired old shit we all are?
>Seriously, for the first ten years I was climbing (while Baxter was still
>editing Rock), every fuching magazine had something about 'the New Wave'.
>We used to joke about it (in the late 90's) "is this going to be a Kevin
>Lindorf issue, or more of a Glenn Tempest issue?" And this was more than
>a decade after the fact!?!?
>
>It's the same shit with the 'Stonemasters' in the U.S. We get it, they
>were good, they did a bunch of new hard routes (mostly because they invented
>training, then dogging and eventually rap bolting). The problem is, these
>guys and their mates also took over the climbing media. So the rest of
>us have been reading the same story over and over again for 30 fuching
>years! I swear to god, if I ever read another John Long piece about some
>whacky occurrence at Suicide Rock in 1973.............
>
>Fuch the Carrigan years! How about the Stu Wyithe and Dave Jones years?
>How about the HB and Steve Monks years? How about sticking your heads outside
>the Araps bubble and take some interest in what Giles, Crunch, and Ant
>were doing in the Carrigan years?\

You're kidding aren't you?

Just because you know the history, doesn't mean everyone else does. There was no point in me watching Valley Uprising as I was aware of virtually every aspect of that film, but that didn't mean I didn't enjoy the film as it was presented. And there were a fair chunk of climbers who were completely oblivious to that history.

As for your brief revision of the Stone Masters... well that is such a fuched up and flawed description, you could do with attending a few history classes to get your facts straight..

As for your climbing story suggestions, no one is stopping you from making your own film or writing your own book. You might even get a couple of people from the Blueys or Canberra interested in watching/reading.

simey
2-Mar-2017
5:19:00 PM
On 2/03/2017 ima.seriousyoungliza wrote:
>
>KIM will always be THE NUMBER ONE PLAYER between 1975-1985...as
>iva sed before everyone else was being dragged along in the slip stream
>of the CARRIGAN FREIGHT TRAIN ...
>

In less than 4 years of climbing Moorhead had outclimbed Kim in terms of establishing pure difficulty, soloed consistently harder than him and was putting up bold new lines in the Himalayas. I know who the freight train was.
ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
5:41:23 PM
....yeeeaaaahhhh...ida rather not go there .... the realm of one Mark Moorhead is a very rich-emotional-tangent for many ppl ...

RESPECT



.................................MM and his much loved motorbike @ the Pines @ 1982

ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
5:56:01 PM
BUT lets hava look at the fax...

On 2/03/2017 simey wrote:
>In less than 4 years of climbing Moorhead had outclimbed Kim in terms
>of establishing pure difficulty

Moorhead ...Cobwebs ...28

Kim was climbing in England for a year around that time ...which enabled Mark ...one of Kim's regular climbing partners at Araps ... to sneak ahead momentarily... ...

>, soloed consistently harder than him

...if a hold breaks when ur soloing Bard (12) ...

>and was putting up bold new lines in the Himalayas.

bold maybe but I dunna about new lines ...

>I know who the freight train was.

....yeah righto ... like I sed ...





One Day Hero
2-Mar-2017
6:25:55 PM
On 2/03/2017 simey wrote:
>You're kidding aren't you?

Not at all. If people have been consuming Australian climbing media for any portion of the last 3 decades, they know the 'New Wave' story inside out. Your guidebook does a great job of covering it, twenty or more magazine articles over the years just repeat the same shit.
Ross Taylor even did another Moorhead article last year, maybe 5% of which was material I hadn't seen in print before.

Here's an example of the myth making bullshit which annoys me. I did Cecilia ages ago, and the first ascent boggled my young mind. Imagining Glenn Tempest rocking up and jumping for that jug (with the risk of eating shit down the gully), freaked me out. Except.......that was the yo-yo era. So what? He jumped for the jug on toprope? Anyone can do that.

>As for your brief revision of the Stone Masters... well that is such a
>fuched up and flawed description, you could do with attending a few history
>classes to get your facts straight..

I'm not saying the stone masters didn't do cool things, but it gets rammed down your throat so often it's like commercial radio killing Hotel California. How about Henry Barber? He didn't get that good in isolation. There must have been a hard-hitting scene in New Hampshire. Who were the other climbers? I have no fuching clue, because American climbing media ignores that bit of history.

>As for your climbing story suggestions, no one is stopping you from making
>your own film or writing your own book.

I wouldn't mind writing a couple of articles. Honestly though, is there room in the Australian climbing press for anything outside of the Wimmera and the Blueys?
ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
6:46:17 PM
>>>is there room in the Australian climbing press for anything outside of the Wimmera and the Blueys?

...welll whilya pondering that ... check out the sheilas vs the blokes at the start of the Carrigan Years as portrayed by Carrigan Years film star Jack Thompson ... him an his mate gate crash a womens discussion at UNSW...he trolls them to start with ...then ...

good insight into attatudes of the time

http://aso.gov.au/titles/features/petersen/clip1/

ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
7:20:15 PM
>>> How about the HB ... years?

awww...or...right ...



Horsham Bruce aka HB aka H aka Malcolm ...started climbing grade 10s in 1978 ... when Kim was establishing 26 on Procul ...HB was
always in Kim's shadow during the Carrigan Years ... but acording to Claw , HB '...got very good very quickly ...'

HB nearly blew his hand off circa 1982, and found himself climbing grade 10 again ...

...for a while ...


ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
7:31:31 PM

....the KING ...and the JESTER ........................Kim working Masada ...........Muir probably listening to the Sex Pistols ...as he usually did ...




ima.seriousyoungliza
2-Mar-2017
8:04:42 PM
ODH vented
>>>Do you have any idea how sick of hearing this tired old shit we all are?


On 16/08/2015 wallwombat wrote:
>I think the harsh reality is, most climbers under the age of thirty haven't
>got a clue who he is...

Claw @ nov 2014
>>>if Kim did put pen to paper or finger to keyboard he could destroy much of the mythology us also-rans perpetuated after he wandered off....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM





simey
3-Mar-2017
9:54:56 AM
On 2/03/2017 One Day Hero wrote:

>I'm not saying the stone masters didn't do cool things, but it gets rammed
>down your throat so often it's like commercial radio killing Hotel California.
>How about Henry Barber? He didn't get that good in isolation. There must
>have been a hard-hitting scene in New Hampshire. Who were the other climbers?
>I have no fuching clue, because American climbing media ignores that bit
>of history.
>
Some truly remarkable climbers do just suddenly appear from out of the blue. I don't think Alex Honnold was part of any scene for him to develop his soloing to the level that he does. In fact from a soloing perspective (of which Henry Barber was a leading practitioner), it is often a lack of climbing partners that pushes people in that direction.

And look at Angie Scarth-Johnson... here is a young girl that started pulling hard with no outside influence pushing her.

>>As for your climbing story suggestions, no one is stopping you from making
>>your own film or writing your own book.
>
>I wouldn't mind writing a couple of articles. Honestly though, is there
>room in the Australian climbing press for anything outside of the Wimmera
>and the Blueys?

I think there are heaps of great stories to be told in Australian climbing. Michael Meadows has done an awesome job of compiling much of the very early history of climbing in QLD and NSW in his book, The Living Rock. I never realised that Australia had such a rich climbing history. I totally recommend his book for those who haven't seen it.

However there is a colourful story to be told about the climbing scene in Australia between 75 and 85. And if you were to flesh it out the correct way, then it would appeal to a very wide audience, much like how the skate doco 'Dogtown and Z-Boys' appealed to an audience that weren't into skateboarding. If you capture the era, the characters, the rebel element and other themes, then you realise that decade has a lot going on which even non-climbers would relate to.


One Day Hero
3-Mar-2017
12:02:10 PM
On 3/03/2017 simey wrote:
>Some truly remarkable climbers do just suddenly appear from out of the
>blue. I don't think Alex Honnold was part of any scene........

It appears that way because the climbing media runs that narrative. Everyone knows about Peter Croft, but what do you know about Hamish Fraser? You go over to Squamish, and (like the Carrigan and Moorhead thing), the local take on things is that Fraser was at least as talented as Croft, but just not as interested in being famous.

>And look at Angie Scarth-Johnson... here is a young girl that started
>pulling hard with no outside influence pushing her.

See, I actually live in Canberra, and I know that this version is not the whole truth.

>However there is a colourful story to be told about the climbing scene
>in Australia between 75 and 85. And if you were to flesh it out the correct
>way, then it would appeal to a very wide audience.

My shitty, amatuer psych take on this is that we all tend to mythologize the generation who were kicking arse locally when we got into the sport. So, as a teenage bumbly, you saw the tail end of the 'New Wave', and thought they were gods.
I definitely had the same thing when I started in the 90's, but grew out of it eventually.

Your movie would ignore Ewbank, and Bryden Allen, Keith Bell, Joe Friend (that dude must have been a monster). Due to your Arapiles tunnel vision, you'd forget to mention 'golden era climbers' such as John Smart, Stasewski, Maddison, etc. And then you'd roll the credits just as you got to the era of Monks, Matheson, Dave Jones, and yourself..........who put up more three star hardish routes than the new wave did.
simey
3-Mar-2017
1:01:57 PM
On 3/03/2017 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 3/03/2017 simey wrote:
>>Some truly remarkable climbers do just suddenly appear from out of the
>>blue. I don't think Alex Honnold was part of any scene........
>
>It appears that way because the climbing media runs that narrative. Everyone
>knows about Peter Croft, but what do you know about Hamish Fraser? You
>go over to Squamish, and (like the Carrigan and Moorhead thing), the local
>take on things is that Fraser was at least as talented as Croft, but just
>not as interested in being famous.
>
I must admit I don't know Hamish Fraser but to suggest that Peter Croft soloed what he did because he wanted to be famous is ridiculous. If you're a climber you generally want to tackle the most inspiring routes you are capable of, which is exactly what Peter Croft did.

>>And look at Angie Scarth-Johnson... here is a young girl that started
>>pulling hard with no outside influence pushing her.
>
>See, I actually live in Canberra, and I know that this version is not
>the whole truth.

Well free to enlighten me, but she comes from non-climbing parents and wants to jump on routes about 10 grades harder than most other kids her age would even contemplate. If there is some mystical figure that inspired her in that direction, don't hesitate to redirect them to me!
>
>>However there is a colourful story to be told about the climbing scene
>>in Australia between 75 and 85. And if you were to flesh it out the correct
>>way, then it would appeal to a very wide audience.
>
>My shitty, amatuer psych take on this is that we all tend to mythologize
>the generation who were kicking arse locally when we got into the sport.
>So, as a teenage bumbly, you saw the tail end of the 'New Wave', and thought
>they were gods.
>I definitely had the same thing when I started in the 90's, but grew out
>of it eventually.
>
>Your movie would ignore Ewbank, and Bryden Allen, Keith Bell, Joe Friend
>(that dude must have been a monster). Due to your Arapiles tunnel vision,
>you'd forget to mention 'golden era climbers' such as John Smart, Stasewski,
>Maddison, etc. And then you'd roll the credits just as you got to the era
>of Monks, Matheson, Dave Jones, and yourself..........who put up more three
>star hardish routes than the new wave did.

I'm not disputing the historical significance of the characters you mention, but I do believe the story potential of the era and people I am talking about is particularly rich. And maybe because I know a bit more about the background I can see how it could be crafted to make it entertaining.

Hell, there are a lot of great stories that I know nothing about. Even the other thread on Chocky at the moment about Josephine Flood (see A funny thing happened at work today...) was pretty enlightening. Her story sounds like potential gold for an inspiring climbing doco.

ajfclark
3-Mar-2017
1:04:48 PM
On 3/03/2017 simey wrote:
>Hell, there are a lot of great stories that I know nothing about. Even the other thread on Chocky at the moment about Josephine Flood (see An Interesting Happened at Work Today...) sounds like it has the potential to be a super inspiring Goatfest entry waiting to be made.

FTFY
One Day Hero
3-Mar-2017
1:48:29 PM
On 3/03/2017 simey wrote:
>I must admit I don't know Hamish Fraser but to suggest that Peter Croft
>soloed what he did because he wanted to be famous is ridiculous.

Yeah, fair point, I probably overreached a bit. What I was trying to get at was that Croft became world famous, and it may appear from the outside that he developed in isolation. But when you go to his local area there's a rich history with tons of other talented, motivated climbers who were well known in their scene, but never ventured onto the larger stage.

>Well free to enlighten me, but she comes from non-climbing parents and
>wants to jump on routes about 10 grades harder than most other kids her
>age would even contemplate. If there is some mystical figure that inspired
>her in that direction, don't hesitate to redirect them to me!

Angie had tons of support and encouragement from the crowd at her local gym. What did you think? She was just going to Nowra at 7 years old with her non-climbing folks, and working things out?
There are top level crushers living in Canberra, but they have jobs and uni, and they don't bum in the pines......so you don't realise they exist.

I wasn't that impressed with Valley Uprising for a couple of reasons. The most glaringly irritating part was that they edited out non-Americans. The offhand dismissal of the mid 80s through to late 90s with "everthing went quiet for 15 years"........wtf? Croft, Skinner and Piana, Florine, the Hubers, Houlding? Nup, skip past them and on to the producers mates.
ima.seriousyoungliza
3-Mar-2017
2:35:23 PM
simey
>>> there is a colourful story to be told about the climbing scene in Australia between 75 and 85..

...the bottom line is the Carrigan Years IS all about Kim Carrigan ... cos he DOMINATED '...the climbing scene in Australia between 75 and 85 ..' ................all the other 'colour and characters ' flow along with, and swirl around , the KC base-line thru those years ....

One Day Hero
3-Mar-2017
2:51:00 PM
How you going, Hexylizardbro?

It just occurred to me that you too must have been a young bumbly in the 80s. I reckon you're late 40's to late 50's, and spent a bit of time at Araps while Kim was still around (or just after he quit, while the legend was fresh).
ima.seriousyoungliza
3-Mar-2017
3:11:33 PM
>>> the legend ...

NOW WERE SPEAR-HEADING THRU THE B'S' & ' MYTHS '...

thx 4 that !!!

: D


widewetandslippery
3-Mar-2017
3:49:45 PM
ima, thanks for all this. I have a bit of footrot and have to rip a few toenails off later. Detol, betadine, pliers and a bottle of stones works but this thread will give me a chortle as I rip in.
ima.seriousyoungliza
3-Mar-2017
4:03:49 PM
HUH ??? WHA ????

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=130575

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2223

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1562190/Feet

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