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Helmets?

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
9:55:17 AM

Hopefully this won't descend into a slap fight that we bitches are quite capable of.

I have quite a number of cycling helmets on my shelf that I have used for racing over the last few years. They are all in good condition and were only relegated to the display for vainity reasons. Why wouldn't I use any of these for climbing and belaying in. I have found the climbing specific ones all very uncomfortable. The only disadvantage I can see is the high chance of a single impact rendering it used where as a hard shell would take a few of those hits. Thoughts?


ajfclark

13-Nov-2008
9:58:35 AM

Cycling helmets are designed for a different impact than climbing helmets. While in some situations they would be better than nothing, in some cases they wouldn't.


wallwombat

13-Nov-2008
9:59:53 AM

They are too aerodynamic.

You will end up climbing too fast and getting pumped out.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

13-Nov-2008
10:00:31 AM

Here is one thought.

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
10:03:31 AM

>Cycling helmets are designed for a different impact than climbing helmets. While in >some situations they would be better than nothing, in some cases they wouldn't.

Can you elaborate on teh differences. A cycling helmet is actually designed for an impact from all directions. The similar style 'in shell foam molded' climbing helmets I have looked at seem to just providing a protective layer over the head with no real obvious structural strength.

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
10:04:36 AM

On 13/11/2008 wallwombat wrote:
>They are too aerodynamic.
>
>You will end up climbing too fast and getting pumped out.

LOL! that's funny as f---!

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
10:05:59 AM

On 13/11/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Here is one thought

That thread did come to mind when I was thinking about this.


ajfclark

13-Nov-2008
10:13:50 AM

On 13/11/2008 devlin66 wrote:
>Can you elaborate on teh differences. A cycling helmet is actually designed for an impact from all directions. The similar style 'in shell foam molded' climbing helmets I have looked at seem to just providing a protective layer over the head with no real obvious structural strength.

Not with any authority; I'm just repeating what I've always been told about helmets and makes sense to me: a helmet designed for a specific situation is likely to give better protection than one that isn't.

Having a look at light foam climbing and cycle helmets (say a BD tracer and a Giro atmos) the main differences seem to be the size and number of ventilation holes, the mesh in said holes and the back of the climbing helmet extends lower. I assume a smaller number of smaller, meshed holes is to increase protection from projections of rock or falling rock. The lower back would increase protection from rear impacts.

Can't tell from looking at them what they are designed to do on in an impact though.


Dutch

13-Nov-2008
10:18:27 AM

Cycling helmet is probably fine for impacts against a wall, such as if you have the rope caugt around your leg and turn upside down. but, they might not have as good a coverage and there are usually alot of holes in cycling helmets for ventilation, not so good if you've got falling rock from above, but much nicer on a hot summers day.

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
10:35:25 AM

One thing I do know is that cycling helemets must pass a stingent rear fall onto a curb, that suggests that rear coverage would be good.

As far as projection through holes because of the ventialation requirements of cycling helmets they a fairly deep from the outside of the helmet to the your skull. A falling rock small enough to go through one of thos vents just wouldn't have the energy to cause any real injury.

I guess my main concern is the choice between an 'in shell moulded' style helmet or a hard shell. I think if i was going to choose an 'in shell' I'd go for one of my cycling helmets. Thanks for the replies.


evanbb

13-Nov-2008
10:40:35 AM

I doubt there is any way that a cycling helmet could make matters worse. While not ideal it will definitely lower your risk.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

13-Nov-2008
10:48:26 AM

I'm not sure about that.
False security could actually be worse in some situations.

Don't take my word for it though, as I am conservative and use a hard shell helmet almost always.
~> I am also getting older and greying ...
Heh, heh, heh

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
11:11:08 AM

On 13/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>While not ideal

You might be referring to the points already made but can expand a little if not? :-)


evanbb

13-Nov-2008
11:41:35 AM

On 13/11/2008 devlin66 wrote:
>On 13/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>>While not ideal
>
>You might be referring to the points already made but can expand a little
>if not? :-)

Yeah, sorry for the vagueries. Lots of helmets are a sort of ice-cream container with a mesh/webbing inside to stop top impacts. Like construction helmets, they are excellent at absorbing the load of a rock cracking you on top of the skull. Which would hurt. There are a couple of risks with a holy bike helmet, like the corner of a rock poking through the hole and hitting you anyway, and a lot of bike helmets aren't designed with top impact in mind. However, a bike helmet (I wore a freestyle BMX helmet for years) will protect your nogggin a bit from top impacts, but will also do an excellent job stopping the flipping-upside-down-and-banging-the-wall incidents associated with weird lead falls and possible abseil accidents like Lee's Mum, or something like your first piece popping and decking out. Also fine for canyonning. As I said, better than nothing, but not perfect.

Here's some pics of cool hemlets:
My BMX helmet of yore

My Kong Scarab, which is awesome. Approved for cycling, climbing, horse riding and paddling. Light and red.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

13-Nov-2008
11:57:45 AM

On 13/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>However, a bike helmet (I wore a freestyle BMX helmet for years) will protect your nogggin a bit from top impacts, but will also do an excellent job stopping the flipping-upside-down-and-banging-the-wall incidents associated with weird lead falls and possible abseil accidents like Lee's Mum.

Am not sure Lee's mum would agree with you. Wasn't she wearing a bike helmet at the time, and it proved all but useless for her accident?

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
12:14:20 PM

Thanks for that Evan. For me the protuding rock would only be a tiny factor. Granted some of the bike helmets, especially some XC helmets, have big vents, but the chances of you finding a thin bit of rock thats long enough to reach the head are pretty low. Having said that I've been climbing for about 10 years all up and only bumped my head once in a fall but that's not to say it can't/won't happen. i suppose it's the choice's you make, like wearing and not waering a helmet. I was just after some other peoples ideas and points that I hadn't figuered on before.

Lee's mum was supposedly wearing a Petzl Meteor.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

13-Nov-2008
12:22:27 PM

>Petzl Meteor

Just re-read that thread. You are right; & they are supposed to be climbing helmets ...

I have seen too much rockfall to have much faith in any of the polystyrene style of helmets, no matter their design intent.


evanbb

13-Nov-2008
12:30:29 PM

On 13/11/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I have seen too much rockfall to have much faith in any of the polystyrene
>style of helmets, no matter their design intent.

Those horrible styrene helmets have been phased out, thankfully. Remember the old styrene lids with a sort of stretchy sock over them for coolness factor? Apparently they were outlawed because the soft (relative to p.carbonate) foam would grip the hard and pointy bitumen in an impact, particularly bad where horizontal force is involved. So, our hero hits something, goes over the bars with some forward velocity. The soft helmet hits the road and protects from the impact, but the helmet 'sticks' to the ground and stops completely. This then essentially snaps the neck back/forward and transfers all the load to the neck. Not good. Could take your head clean off. Carbonate is superior cos it's tough and hard, so it slides along the road.

devlin66

13-Nov-2008
12:58:50 PM

here is an interesting blog I found while doing a little online research of helmet standards. For those of you interested in design and materials there is plenty to read. I haven't ventured too far into the blog to see if he is talking out his ass though.

Click Here!!


evanbb

13-Nov-2008
1:40:00 PM

On 13/11/2008 devlin66 wrote:
>here is an interesting blog I found while doing a little online research
>of helmet standards. For those of you interested in design and materials
>there is plenty to read. I haven't ventured too far into the blog to see
>if he is talking out his ass though.
>
>Click
>Here!!

That article seems reasonable. Nothing revolutionary in there.

There are 36 messages in this topic.