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Mountaineering/ Ice Climbing

SimmoMelb

27-May-2010
9:43:34 PM

Hi i'm interested in giving mountaineering a go and hopefully a bit of ice climbing too at some point this year. I've done quite a bit of rock climbing and have started training much more, but i don't know all that much about the alpine stuff.

Could someone give me some advice on how best to get started with mountaineering and ice climbing, obviously the most cost effective option would be preferred but any advice would be awesome!

thanks!

Mike Bee

27-May-2010
9:50:23 PM

Most cost effective advice: go buy a copy of Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills

Most thorough way: find a mate with similar aims and go hire a guide for a week in the NZ Alps during summer.

citationx

27-May-2010
10:23:08 PM

On 27/05/2010 Mike Bee wrote:

>Most thorough way: find a mate with similar aims and go hire a guide for
>a week in the NZ Alps during summer.

I learned through my University climbing club (Sydney Uni). I believe Melbourne Uni has a hut in the alps so there should be someone with skillz enough to teach you there. After the removal of compulsory unions for students non-students in sydney were able to join for much cheaper (<$100). Perhaps hanging out with them over winter will give you basic skills (usually in the aussie alps) that you can use to hook up with more epxerienced people in places like NZ.

maxdacat

28-May-2010
10:56:21 AM

I've only ever done ice climbing in France and Scotoland (plus one route in Wales this northern winter just gone). I signed up for an ice course a few years ago with Alpine Guides and took it myself from there. It's one of the best things i've done and gives you an excuse to buy lots of shiney gear.....plus new style leashless axes make climbing ice more similar to rock in terms of movement.

I treat ice as separate to mountaineering. At least with moutaineering you can get the basics in Oz and climb proper mountains in NZ. Not sure either though, has any decent ice to speak of - those in the know correct me if i'm wrong.

sleake

28-May-2010
11:46:54 AM

The main thing you need to realize, is that comparing rock climbing to moderate grade mountaineering is like comparing surfing to scuba diving - similar medium, different skills. The hardest move you will ever to up to about NZ 4 or so will be less than grade 14 - and will most likely be just a single move.

Climbing real mountains is about making the correct judgment call, moving quickly for long periods of time, and doing simple but exposed and sustained climbing with little or no gear.

Take me for example - Went to NZ at the start of the last season for my first ever mountaineering trip - got told by heaps of climbers here that i shouldnt go cause a 13 yearold girl can climb better than me on rock. Just hung out on my own, scratching for parteners, practising stuff and talking to anyone who would hear me, didnt bother with a guide/course or anything. Ended up climbing Cook, Aspiring and dozens of other peaks, and I can lead maby grade 14 at the absolute limit of my skill and confidence. However, I saw a heap of strong, sport climbing aussies get shut down on the most basic of peaks, because they couldnt cope with the cold, objective danger, terrible weather, overall intimidation etc. While I will never be able to climb harder than 20 - I know I can get up a heap of peaks, not because I have heaps of skill on gymnastic rock moves, but because I can solo absolute choss in plastics and crampons and pack, solo sustained steep ice and snow faces for hours, and over all cope with the whole misery and suffering that you must endure.

Mountaineering is a different game, but it leads to far greater rewards, in my view at least.

ps - none of this applies to ice climbing - leading technical ice is a amazing test of headspace and skill.

Eduardo Slabofvic

28-May-2010
11:51:02 AM

Ice climbing is more like building demolition than rock climbing. If you like hacking into things with metal implements then you'll love it.

Damien Gildea

28-May-2010
2:03:41 PM

On 28/05/2010 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>Ice climbing is more like building demolition

Well it shouldn't be, unless you're the ANU Mountaineering Club on a weekend trip to Blue Lake ;-)

It's more about footwork, balance, finding rests, smart axe placements, judging the ice, keeping calm, having your rack and gear placements sorted, staying warm and dry etc etc. Like climbing chossy trad 11s in a wet winter somewhere remote. No, Wingello is not remote.

You can actually get a feel for it at Blue Lake if conditions are good. The ice there tends to be brittle though, so not the best for beginners, but then the fat flows are never more than a few metres of steep anyway, so it's not too bad. Plenty good for getting the feel of swinging tools, placing crampons well and placing ice screws etc. The steeper, icier snow slopes around the same area (and no doubt Feathertop etc in VIC) also give decent practice at cramponing, ice axe use etc, which give a good base upon which to try something harder, or do a course, in NZ.

As for NZ (water) ice, I've done two trips into Bush Stream and the ice in there can be awesome if you get it right. July 2006 was great, July 2004 also good, you just gotta watch it. Wye Ck and the Cones nr the Remarkables seem a little more reliable and accessible, but if the season is a good one there are at least three or four unclimbed 2-pitch routes in Bush Stream of Canadian/Cogne quality. But you gotta get up early and move fast before the sun hits. Best is helo in and walk (easy bush bash) out.

There are other areas like Cigar Ck, Leaping Burn and odd frozen flows here and there, including some near Cook Village and in Twin Stream, plus of course the Darrans. But that's another story ...

sliamese

28-May-2010
6:33:56 PM

>Most cost effective advice: go buy a copy of Mountaineering: The Freedom
>of the Hills

extreme alpinism by Mark Twight is a much more effective book on how to climb alpine routes. IMO theres some better books out there that deal with each subject better, ie avalanches etc. most stuff can be found on the old interweb as well! crevassee rescue isnt too hard to learn from a computer screen!!

id say go to canada or europe dude! NZ is great fun but its a steep fairly dangerous learning curve. If you actually want to climb technical pitches NZ isnt the best. it is still a good cheap alternative, with places like wye creek and the remarkables in winter though!!

like others have said, hiring a guide with some mates is way better then doing a course generally. with similar skill levels and fitness everyone will get the most out of the time!!

get amongst it dude, cya out there!! :)

robertsonja

28-May-2010
6:58:57 PM

On 27/05/2010 Mike Bee wrote:
>Most cost effective advice: go buy a copy of Mountaineering: The Freedom
>of the Hills
>
>Most thorough way: find a mate with similar aims and go hire a guide for
>a week in the NZ Alps during summer.

ditto.

Extreme Alpinsim and Freedom of the Hills are completely different books and both very good introductions!

maxdacat

28-May-2010
7:42:58 PM

this is pretty good too:

http://www.rockfax.com/publications/books/item.php?id=146

although it focuses more on technical ice and mixed climving

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