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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 49
Author
Belayers behaving badly
sandwitch time
27-Apr-2009
12:56:10 PM
Need some answers !!!

Has anyone just about given up on rock climbing / moved towards self belaying , as a result of tom-foolery from bozo belayers ????

I have had the following happen :

1) belayers belaying with one hand ( and feeding out the rope with the same hand ), so they can txt on da mob.

2) rolling durries while Im on the crux moves - " yeah,yeah , Im paying attention ! "

3) Even spotted one dude playing pocket billards !!!

What to do ??? What else can they get up to ????


Just about ready to sell my rack !!!



joad
27-Apr-2009
12:59:11 PM
GriGri - designed for dumb sportclimbers
Paul
27-Apr-2009
2:09:29 PM
I have climbed with people who were bad belayers in the past, I just stopped climbing with them and found new climbing partners

rodw
27-Apr-2009
2:12:03 PM
Same dont climb with em...I choose my belayers carefully.......Gri Gri is not a solution for bad belaying as they are not fail safe...just make bad belayers think they can be even more lazy/unattentive.

bluey
27-Apr-2009
2:14:10 PM
I had one belayer lie on the ground looking up at me leading and soaking up the sunshine - I suppose he was avoiding belayer's neck, but frankly I wasn't impressed.

alrob
27-Apr-2009
2:26:26 PM
hahaha! i always love people attitudes on gri gris made for lazy people, and are dangerous due to people being unattentive.

cars - made for people too lazy to walk
computers - made for people to lazy to write or visit a library
television - made for people too lazy to talk to one another.

get a life and stop whingeing. no gri gris aren't fail safe. nothing is. no ones ever said they are. but show me the stats where gri gris and lazy belayers have been involved in more accidents then ATC's.



IdratherbeclimbingM9
27-Apr-2009
2:43:22 PM
On 27/04/2009 sandwitch time wrote:
>Need some answers !!!
>
(snip)
>
>What to do ??? What else can they get up to ????
>
>
>Just about ready to sell my rack !!!
>

Just do it. You don't need an excuse to sell your rack!
;-P



On 27/04/2009 bluey wrote:
>I had one belayer lie on the ground looking up at me leading and soaking
>up the sunshine - I suppose he was avoiding belayer's neck, but frankly
>I wasn't impressed.

Although I don't belay in this fashion, I have over the years seen plenty of this style of belaying, including photos in climbing magazines. If the braking hand/arm action is not restricted is it that bad?
It seems more a risk to the belayer in that they can't scamper out of the way as easily from falling debri* on chossy climbs?

(*or stuff dropped their way by cranky leader? Heh, heh, heh.)
widewetandslippery
27-Apr-2009
2:45:25 PM
I have a mate, lets say his name begins somewhere between f and h who is easily distracted. He over the years has done some shockers but at the end of the day He will pull me up. Call it blind faith but I trust him.

Bluey are you sure he wasn't looking at you're nether?


rodw
27-Apr-2009
2:54:54 PM
On 27/04/2009 alrob wrote:
> but show me the stats where gri gris and lazy
>belayers have been involved in more accidents then ATC's.

I think its the chicken or the egg here alrob, being lazy (apart from just using it wrong) is why a gri gri will fail, as some will think the device will always pull up with minimal effort...but thats just poor technique as opposed to bad device...with ATC its more black and white.....you let go...it wont work.....simple.

...all got pro's and cons but it always come down to the belayers skill really and what they find most confortable to use..and some people are just crap at it for various reasons..... regardless of what they use.

gordoste
27-Apr-2009
3:16:49 PM
bluey that's fair play in my book. if you asked him/her to stand up and they said no, then you'd have something to complain about. i wonder how many accidents could have been prevented by people speaking their mind?

Eduardo Slabofvic
27-Apr-2009
3:23:09 PM
On 27/04/2009 sandwitch time wrote:
>Need some answers !!!
>
>Has anyone just about given up on rock climbing / moved towards self
>belaying , as a result of tom-foolery from bozo belayers ????
>
I've got my fair share of horror stories, but I go for the Shunt more often that a human belayer due for several reasons.

1. My shunt doesn't FIGJAM all day long
2. I only do the routes I want to
3 Although my shunt is no great conversationalist, at least its not deathly boring
4 My shunt does the same thing everytime
5 My shunt doesn't forget its wallet when its time to go to the pub
6 My shunt doesn't try and steal my gear
7 I get to climb whenever I want to

Sabu
27-Apr-2009
3:39:52 PM
On 27/04/2009 gordoste wrote:
>bluey that's fair play in my book. if you asked him/her to stand up and
>they said no, then you'd have something to complain about. i wonder how
>many accidents could have been prevented by people speaking their mind?

I second that, body position doesn't matter as long as that hand is on the belay end of
the rope! Obviously during the crux moves one would expect a bit of attention to be paid
but during those long cruisy pitches all i expect is my belay to pay the rope out and
enjoy the sunshine!!

bluey
27-Apr-2009
3:46:12 PM
On 27/04/2009 gordoste wrote:
>bluey that's fair play in my book.

I suppose I made an assumption that my belayer would choose standing as a preferred way to do something as important as belaying. But yes, I mentioned it to him once I noticed. To be honest, it was on an easier climb for me (not that he knew that given we had never climbed together) so I didn't notice until I looked down from half way up.

To M9, yeah you may be able to belay sufficiently well from a reclining position but I doubt it. I'd hate to be rapidly trying to take in or brake and say "oh oops, sorry about the extra slack that made you land arse-first on that ledge, my hand bashed into the ground". And at the end of the day, don't you want to be ready, attentive and able to move freely? And surely the best way to do that is not lying down??!?!!!

Here's the test - picture yourself lying down belaying and your leader gets himself/herself in deep sh*t....what's the first thing you would do? Sit up.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27-Apr-2009
4:04:36 PM
On 27/04/2009 bluey wrote:
>And at the end of the day, don't you want to be ready, attentive and able to move freely? And surely the best way to do that is not lying down??!?!!!

There is belaying, and then there is belaying. If the belayer was known to be competent and was paying attention then there would not be excess slack in the system to start with as they would be rope managing according to the leading taking place. Likewise same goes for giving slack as required.
I don't necessarily see it as being right or wrong, just different is all. There are many who I would not want to belay me in this fashion, but there are some who would not worry me if they did so.
By the same token; I have personally experienced as a belayer many cramped belays where belaying action was inhibited even from a standing position. On one of these I added another karabiner to the sticht plate to increase friction for braking just in case I needed to do so in earnest!


>Here's the test - picture yourself lying down belaying and your leader
>gets himself/herself in deep sh*t....what's the first thing you would do?
>Sit up.

... after locking off the rope!
;)
daave
27-Apr-2009
7:12:19 PM
I don't ever have to worry about having a bad belayer...My belayer is so supportive he claps every time I pull the crux...

Cranky
27-Apr-2009
7:59:25 PM
On 27/04/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>
>(*or stuff dropped their way by cranky leader? Heh, heh, heh.)
I don't drop stuff, I throw.
rod
27-Apr-2009
9:03:52 PM
On 27/04/2009 daave wrote:
>I don't ever have to worry about having a bad belayer...My belayer is so
>supportive he claps every time I pull the crux...

where's eduardo with the matching one liner when we need him?

peterc
27-Apr-2009
9:41:20 PM

E.g. #1 - One guy I climbed with had just led a pitch to the top of a pillar. I seconded, and as I was completing a tricky mantle to top out and join him at the belay stance, I noticed (mid-mantle) that my belayer had taken BOTH hands off the brake side of the belay device.

E.g. #2 - On another occasion, after reaching the anchors of a climb, I looked over my shoulder and checked in with my belayer. She gave me the okay and I weighted the rope. She believes that she must have let go of the rope, because a moment later I was on the ground with two broken vertebrae.

E.g. #3 - I was climbing with someone who had both hands stuffed into his down jacket whilst belaying with a gri-gri. Neither hand was anywhere near the rope. And when I yelled at him, and asked him what the freaking f*&k he was doing, he told me that he was cold. I downclimbed (back past the crux), yelled at him some more, picked up my gear and found someone else to climb with.

And re: the prone belaying stance - I have also looked back down and seen my belayer lying on the ground working on his suntan. That was the last time I climbed with him.

If I had taken a decent fall, I'm not sure how his back would have handled the strain. And besides, my favourite belayers actively belay me. In a sports climbing situation for example, they are constantly adjusting their positions, moving slightly in or away from the cliff depending on what is happening. If a climber is in danger of hitting a ledge, yarding in the slack and stepping back (or jumping backwards) can be the difference between a safe catch and an injury. And an attentive belayer also makes for soft catches as well.


dmnz
28-Apr-2009
11:46:24 AM
On 27/04/2009 sandwitch time wrote:
>Need some answers !!!
>
>Has anyone just about given up on rock climbing / moved towards self
>belaying , as a result of tom-foolery from bozo belayers ????
>
>I have had the following happen :
>
>1) belayers belaying with one hand ( and feeding out the rope with the
>same hand ), so they can txt on da mob.
>
>2) rolling durries while Im on the crux moves - " yeah,yeah , Im paying
>attention ! "
>
>3) Even spotted one dude playing pocket billards !!!
>
>What to do ??? What else can they get up to ????
>
>
>Just about ready to sell my rack !!!
>
>

just think of it as soloing or guiding (soloing with someone trying to pull you off)
but yes, as johnnie walker says 'keep walking'
sandwitch time
29-Apr-2009
4:49:19 PM
On 27/04/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:

>1. My shunt doesn't FIGJAM all day long

Wot is figjam?

>2. I only do the routes I want to

Yeah I tend to be sneaky and convince em my goals are thr goals.

>5 My shunt doesn't forget its wallet when its time to go to the pub

:D

>6 My shunt doesn't try and steal my gear

:D

>7 I get to climb whenever I want to

Right-on !!

Is a shunt reliable if the weather turns a bit drizzly ?

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There are 49 messages in this topic.

 

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