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Glue in carrots

Stugang

10-Jun-2019
4:04:42 PM

Long time since there’s been a good bolt discussion. Or any discussion for that matter. So here goes...

1: any issues with glue in carrots with hangers (using 316 stainless bolt and hanger)?

2: how does response to 1 above change if it is a tropical marine (not right on beach though) environment?

3: does response to 2 change if it is granite and not a high traffic area? These would not be sports routes and would be for the occasional piece on a mainly trad route or rap anchors.

Cheers stu

ima.seriousyoungliza

10-Jun-2019
4:16:43 PM

...ima sure thereza few answers here 4ya...

http://upskillclimbing.blogspot.com/2011/03/titanium-bolts-answer-for-thailand.html


E. Wells

10-Jun-2019
4:30:23 PM

Best bet is to ignore anything to do with Limestone and find an area in the world that has granite on ocean and get the local lowdown. W.A? That little honeymoon island is sounding like a good holiday...

The Rock Robster

10-Jun-2019
4:55:55 PM

On 10-Jun-2019 Stugang wrote:
>1: any issues with glue in carrots with hangers (using 316 stainless bolt
>and hanger)?

Yes. Carrots shouldn't have hangers, that's blasphemy. I sill think we should use seat belt mechanisms like Claw.

Stugang

10-Jun-2019
6:19:30 PM

Yeh I did read about SCC in another article. Farkin scary. Trouble is Tioman is close but not exactly the same as Thailand....not sure I want to find out the hard way how close you can get and be safe.

So next question any tips for suitable titanium options I can get at shortish notice? Not sure if I can get climbing ones in time.

Another question is about battery life on a Bosch cordless - any issues if the battery hasn’t been used in 3 years? Not keen on the idea of lugging bolting kit up a jungle path for three hours to find out I can only get half a hole in. I’ll try and get the specs.

dalai

11-Jun-2019
5:58:06 AM

On 10-Jun-2019 E. Wells wrote:
>Best bet is to ignore anything to do with Limestone and find an area in
>the world that has granite on ocean and get the local lowdown.

Sardinia and Corsica both islands with Granite and a long climbing history.

Stugang

11-Jun-2019
7:15:29 AM

Cheers all for the help.

I don’t think sardinia and Corsica have the same wet tropical climate.

The main difference is the type of rock as the tops are vegetated and the walls wet from runoff a lot of year. Being granite you won’t get seepage Into tho bolt hole from behind but you’d still get water inside an expansion bolt hole from runoff.

What I don’t know is if the fact that limestone is alkaline does it exacerbate the SCC rusting with the acidic water? Any way to find out?

We are looking into Ti options so may be a moot point but would still be good to know.

dalai

11-Jun-2019
8:06:35 AM

On 11-Jun-2019 Stugang wrote:
>
>I don’t think sardinia and Corsica have the same wet tropical climate.
>
Agreed, but the first well established areas that came to mind. Will try and find some more relevant areas...

Stugang

11-Jun-2019
9:27:02 AM

Thinking about it glued in threaded Ti rod could be perfect solution? Easy to place compared to rings and U bolts and also easy to replace chain and hangers on rap stations. Probably cheaper too and easy to get???

Also turns out granite erodes leaving acidic water - no idea what that means for SCC compared to limestone? Any chemists out there?


Chloe

11-Jun-2019
2:49:00 PM

On 11-Jun-2019 Stugang wrote:
>What I don’t know is if the fact that limestone is alkaline does it exacerbate the SCC rusting with the acidic water?

Limestone is on the alkaline side of the PH scale and caves are formed by slightly acidic water (decomposing vegetation matter in rainwater), dissolving it.
I would think that one would largely cancel out the other to be PH neutral and not have major associated corrosion issues.


Keenas

11-Jun-2019
5:33:02 PM

If using SS nut, washer and hanger on a Ti bolt/threaded bar, the SS may corrode slowly.

Stugang

11-Jun-2019
5:37:46 PM

Seems like we can get hold of some titanium eterna bolts but I’m still curious on the threaded titanium rod option if we can get some. It seems a bit less involved to place (no channel) and may have some advantages with replaceability of external hardware - any comments or experience in using them? I’ve only placed glue in p bolts and machine bolts but that was a very very long time ago.

Stugang

12-Jun-2019
8:51:13 AM

On 11-Jun-2019 Keenas wrote:
>If using SS nut, washer and hanger on a Ti bolt/threaded bar, the SS may
>corrode slowly.

Yeh - the plan would be to use Ti nut and washer and normal stainless hanger. Theory being easy to replace once or if plate starts corroding.

Please someone tell me if this theory is fked.


MrsM10iswhereitsat.

12-Jun-2019
10:54:36 AM

On 12-Jun-2019 Stugang wrote:
>On 11-Jun-2019 Keenas wrote:
>>If using SS nut, washer and hanger on a Ti bolt/threaded bar, the SS
>may
>>corrode slowly.
>
>Yeh - the plan would be to use Ti nut and hanger and normal stainless
>hanger. Theory being easy to replace once or if plate starts corroding.
>
>
>Please someone tell me if this theory is fked.

Derek my M10 love tells me it’s fked.

But, later told me that by the time it’s an issue you will no longer be climbing due old age decrepitude dearie, so not to stress about it.

He also said that what you’re planning is nothing like some shortass route using stacked RPs in a dungeon cave somewhere in SA, so if you haven’t been told already, he wants to get in first with the “Yer gonna die” comment.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

12-Jun-2019
4:53:17 PM

Following your thread with interest stugang...
Presumably this is going to be a ground up ascent given the length of it that you’ve indicated in previous posts.

... So my question is, regardless of materials chosen, if it’s done on lead... are you overnighting along the way while the glue cures?

~> Be sure to red-tag the pitches so your inexperienced tag-alongers don’t inadvertently get on too soon!!
Heh, heh, heh.
;-)

Stugang

12-Jun-2019
5:35:50 PM

Forget the Ti threaded rod thing. Uneconomical unless you are buying industrial quantities.

And yes has to be ground up. Leaving behind titanium rap anchors are main priority so not really a hassle with glue curing as we will have gear anchors as well


Robbie

13-Jun-2019
12:28:17 PM

Just what Stainless Steel/s are being used on our cliffs?
Austinetic, Ferretic, Martensitic, Precipitation Hardening and Duplex are the main areas heading up this alloy.
Intergranular corrosion was an issue in the day of oxy acetylene welding. T.I.G. welding may have sent that one to bed. However the question is. "Are suitable stainless steels are being used?" "Where is it being sourced from?" and , being fixtures (nuts and bolts), is there an ID on EACH unit, that shows a STANDARD, like all the bit on our racks. Anyway, go to to following link, if you want to immerse yourself in the world of metalergy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel#Stress_corrosion_cracking


Keenas

13-Jun-2019
7:20:32 PM

When I first saw this subject, I thought it might be about whether people thought glued in SS carrots were a good compromise between shitty old carrots and chunky rings.
I recently went back to cosmic county after a long time away and got scared where I didn’t get scared before because some bolts are looking pretty crap now. Also thought the routes rebolted with rings didn’t suit the style and history of the place. Maybe glued in SS carrots would refresh the place without looking ugly?
Ok, hit me...

gfdonc

14-Jun-2019
7:25:49 AM

On 13-Jun-2019 Keenas wrote:
>When I first saw this subject, I thought it might be about whether people
>thought glued in SS carrots were a good compromise between shitty old carrots
>and chunky rings.
>I recently went back to cosmic county after a long time away and got scared
>where I didn’t get scared before because some bolts are looking pretty
>crap now. Also thought the routes rebolted with rings didn’t suit the style
>and history of the place. Maybe glued in SS carrots would refresh the place
>without looking ugly?
>Ok, hit me...

Yeah, here it comes (whack) - no more carrots OK? They don't meet the accepted standards and are prone to unclipping with modern biners.
It's been said before ..


Dane

14-Jun-2019
10:58:48 AM

Nah, f*** that.

If you have to replace bolts in an area that’s already on carrots, they should be kept. By all means redesign the hanger (it’s already been done by Tim https://climbdesign.co/2017/12/08/design-awards/)
But we already have enough issues without the encouragement of lines of ugly rings through places that have been discreetly bolted for decades.

There are 25 messages in this topic.